Dryer breaker

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IIRC, the grounding connector is permitted be one size smaller than the grounded and current carrying conductors.
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On Friday, September 11, 2015 at 2:23:38 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Which is why the #10 ground would be OK for a 40 amp dryer circuit using #8 current carrying conductors, but a #12 would not.
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On 9/11/2015 2:01 PM, Sam E wrote:

Happy Festivus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS7-jcsB_WQ

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On 9/8/2015 12:12 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:

New installation requires 10/3 with ground. You may still be able to buy the old cordsets, but I'm not sure.
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Yes you can but they are not legal on a new installation, only for replacement. As Phil Simmonds said on the NEC proposal that eliminated the exception of using the neutral for a gr5ound, "the war is over" (it was a WWII era exception to save copper)
BTW it was NEVER legal to run a dryer on 10/2. The third wire needs to be insulated since it is technically the neutral. That is why, in most cases a bare ground will be available in the cable, even if you have the 3 prong plug. Most 10/3 romex still had a ground. Typically the bare wire was terminated in the box and the white went to the "L" shaped prong. Both landed on the neutral/ground bus in the panel. This arrangement was NOT allowed on a sub panel. If this is a sub, you needed to run 4 wires, even if Glen Miller was playing on the radio. That is a frequent violation that catches people when they do a power upgrade and use the old panel as s sub off the new panel.
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On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 at 4:40:58 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Some people might take that to mean the installation of a new dryer. Just to clarify, that's a new *circuit* installation. It's still code compliant to use a brand new dryer with a 3 wire cord on an existing 3 wire circuit and there are loads of them out there.
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On Wed, 9 Sep 2015 04:38:14 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

The instructions do say you should use a supplemental ground but that is a violation in itself.
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On 09/08/2015 02:10 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
[snip]

I see those cordsets at Wal-Mart. Strangely, not the 4-wire ones.
I needed a 3-wire for my dryer, bought in 2009. This house already had the receptacle for it (likely wired in 1969).
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wrote:

For driers code is 10/3 with a 4 wire plug because many driers run only the element on 220, with the motor and controls on 120 - which now requires a neutral. Used to be you could use the ground as a neutral and get away with it. Not any more.
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On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 15:45:12 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote in

Just curious. Why "not anymore"? Has the nature of electricity changed, or just the code? If just the code, what justifies the increased complications?
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wrote:

They were just trying to make the code more consistent. The only exceptions to the rule were dryers and ranges and since you were going to be using 10/3 Romex anyway, why not use the ground wire that was in there? As I said before there were other restrictions on this.
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On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 21:29:33 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I've seen a lot of 10/2 with ground used for driers in the past, and 8/2 for ranges YEARS ago.
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On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 21:58:13 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I have seen stuff wired with lamp cord but that didn't make it legal.
The fact remains that the exception allowed the neutral to also be used for the ground and the neutral has always been required to be a white insulated conductor. The only time any of that would be legal these days is if it was truly a 240 only piece of equipment and you would use a 6-30r or 6-50r receptacle.
Of course if nobody is ever going to inspect it, this is just between you and your insurance company.
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On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 22:39:18 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Old kitchen ranges had no electronic controls and no 115 volt lights - basically nothing that ran on 120 volts so no neutral was required. I'm talking 60-80 years back. when even a safety ground was almost unheard of. The first electric drier I ever saw was a 220 volt unit - including the motor. Not sure, it may have actually been a european unit - it was part of a set with a front load washer back in the mid '50s, and it was at a friend's farm (They were neighbours back in 1954)
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On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 23:27:08 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Virtually all dryers have 120v timers and motors. I am not sure why since they are purpose built units but I assume it is just easier/cheaper for the timer to switch one ungrounded leg. A european unit will not have that issue since the 220v is line to neutral so they still only have to switch one leg. They would not be legal in the US for that reason.
I agree there were a lot of ranges that were 240v only in the olden days but by the 50s, convenience outlets, lights and clocks were common. They were/are 120v. These days, it is only cook tops that are 240 only.
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On 09/08/2015 9:39 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:
...

...
No, that's not entirely so. Service cable with bare ground was allowed for the run from service equipment to the receptacle allowing the uninsulated ground to serve as the neutral providing it (the ground) was also #10 or larger for ranges and dryers.
But from a branch circuit the insulated ground/shared neutral was required to be insulated, yes. But normally 10/3 w/oG was run, not 4-wire.
The height of absurdity in Code (or misinterpretation, I'm not sure, I've not researched to see for certain) was illustrated last summer here when the well pump dropped owing to a failure in a plastic joint (discovered it had been cross-threaded on installation as root cause) and fishing it out ended up ruining existing down-hole wire. They ran 4-wire cable claiming it was required by Code down the hole to a 240V pump with no connection or use whatever for the neutral. Stupid is as stupid does... :(
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There are different rules for service conductors because they are on the line side of the grounding electrode. I agree there was an exception for SE cable for a dryer but that came with it's own set of rules. We were talking about 10/2 romex

I have not seen much w/o ground wire. It has been in the listing standard since the 60s.

That was misinterpretation.
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On 09/08/2015 06:57 PM, CRNG wrote:
[snip]

2-year old child with serious heart condition runs away from hospital, licks detergent spill on dryer with 3-wire cord, found dead with green tongue :-)
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On 9/9/2015 2:23 PM, hah wrote:

And thus was passed the green tongue dryer cord licking detergent spill protection For The Children bill.
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Uncle Monster wrote:

Nope , no label . It's now hooked up to a 30 amp breaker and runs just fine .
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