Did I Get Screwed By an Incompetent Roofer? Need Advice

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@bigfoot.com says...

No.
They are, but consider that visible light is much* higher yet. It gets scattered pretty well by trees.
--
Keith

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OK. Good point. I guess his neighbor should put in transparent trees.
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This reminds me of a conversation I sat in on once. Some people were wondering what to do with an old junk PDP-8 computer.
Person #1: We could throw it into the pond.
Person #2: I wonder if it would float?
...silence for a moment, as people think about that...
Someone: Well, it's smaller than a Volkswagen, and those float.
Everyone: Ooh...good point!
...silence for a while....
Someone Else: A rock is smaller than a Volkswagen.
What's scary about that conversation was it took place at Caltech, among people who went on to be chip designers, or build systems used by the NSA, or design air bag trigger sensors for the auto industry, and things like that.
(To be fair, some of that conversation was influenced by alcohol and/or marijuana and/or a very hot, humid, Pasadena summer evening making everyone loopy).
--
--Tim Smith

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Sorry to have to tell you this so many years later, but those people may have been sharing a common cultural reference: Monty Python and the Holy Grail. This conversation echoes the very funny witch scene.
    Una
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On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 22:12:56 -0700, Tim Smith

I am often stupid but to be fair to me, not in this case. I was relying on his answer to my first question, can signals go through trees? to which he said No.
Also I've already read lots of threads where people were trying to avoid trees in front of their dishes.
And I didn't rely on frequencies of light being higher than UHF to show that satellite signals wouldn't go through trees, only to show that my "logic" that they would, that higher would go through more stuff was faulty. Without that I had nothing.
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Haven't been reading these postings but did look in and noticed this one on satellite going through trees. You are right, they don't. I had a tree that I thought was clear and it was until it grew another 10 feet sideways and blocked the signal. Had to move the dish down the back of the garage some 20 feet to be sure.
wrote:

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wrote:

It's not an unfair question to ask. Radio waves go through trees just fine. TV reception goes through trees,
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And DBS is what kind of waves?
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It wasn't meant to imply anything about you. The thread with you just reminded me of that conversation because of the way it was structured, not the actual content and its brilliance or not. :-)
--
--Tim Smith

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On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 17:00:58 -0700, Tim Smith

I can see that, thanks. And thanks, Eigenvector.
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Satellite signals are in the 4 GHz range and can be blocked by thunderstorms as well as trees, etc. Also, any upgrades to a dish will probably be to either the software or possibly the feed horn, so the installation itself is relatively permanent. Over a few years we've had a few feed elements replaced, which isn't a big deal. --
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Unfortunately that's not the case. I'm currently on my third dish antenna from DirecTV, for instance. If there's a bright side, though, the mounting hole pattern on the dishes does appear to stay the same. Here's the scenario with my 3 dishes:
Dish 1 - Standard dish Dish 2 - Upgrade to HDTV Dish 3 - Upgrade to receive local HDTV channels and HDTV from new satellite http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/directv_dish_antenna_types.asp
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wrote:

Nope. Not through leaves.

They are, they are microwave. Easily absorbed by water for example. The water in leaves is what makes the trees 'microwave opaque'. <g>
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Uh huh! I get it now. That's what gets hot in microwave ovens too. We got to get rid of all that water. It seems to cause a lot of trouble. Aren't there old mines in Utah or Nevada where we could put the stuff?
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wrote:

The number of times that I've thought of mounting a microwave oven tube on a sat dish and 'frying' the leaves on the nearest trees... Just burn a hole right through them!
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Do you have to replace the post, or only the dish?
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (mg) says...

Next time, don't put it on the roof. They work just as well mounted below a window.
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I'm definitely guilty of not getting the situation with the swamp cooler and dish antenna written into the contract. However, I did have the house reroofed in mid-80s and that contractor did put the roofing underneath the legs of the swamp cooler. So, unfortunately, I assumed it was standard practice.
I actually did ask the contractor about the DirecTV antenna since I have one of the new type that is very difficult to aim. He told me that wouldn't be a problem since the roofers would put the mounting plate back in exactly the same holes. Unfortunately, I only got that verbally and didn't get it in the contract. Even if he had told me, though, that I would have to remove the antenna, that would have been OK. I can hire a guy to tune the antenna back in for about $25. Or, I can do it myself. The roofing job costs $4500.00. So 25 bucks wouldn't bother me any.
Swamp coolers sit on top of a large sheet-metal duck (18" x 18" I think) and the legs are there mostly just to offer additional support. I've actually seen swamp coolers sitting on roofs with no legs at all. The 4 legs are connected to the corners of the swamp cooler with 2 sheet metal screws. It would be an extremely simple matter to remove these legs one or two at a time and roof under them and then put them back on. Swamp coolers are extremely common in my area. It's hard for me to imagine that roofers are going around the state roofing over the legs of swamp coolers when they are so easy to remove. Actually, it's probably a lot easier to remove the legs than it is to roof around them.
It's good to know that it's not that difficult to do a patch. Maybe I'll hire someone to do that or perhaps I can do it myself even though I don't have a clue as to how it's done. It does seem sort of difficult to me, though. My inclination would be to lay the new shingles over the top of the old ones and then put a lot of patch repair stuff around the edges. The situation seems really kludgy to me, especially after just paying $4500 for a new, 30-year roof.
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I will agree that a thoughful contractor would have either assumed it would have to be removed or at least put it in the contract for you. Some are very nervous about having a bid that's low enough to keep the crew working, that's the problem. Those items add to the cost, not by much but enough to make the bidder nervous. He's thinking, if I don't mention it or itemize it on the bid then I have a better chance of winning the job. Then when the guys get on the site they haven't been told one way or the other.

Agreed. A roofer only needs a few tools and just may not be prepared for that job even if it is easy it requires a few tools anyway.

Absolutely, you have every right to be dissapointed. Your contactor should have made sure it was in the contract and that arrangments were made. But, if you signed the contract then part of the responsiblity is also yours. You can eventually be happy it will just require more energy from you, a bummer I know.
Patching is easy since the nails can be removed from the surrounding shingles by slipping a flat bar underneath. Then new shingles can be slipped in and nailed. No roofing cement should be needed. You do need a real roofer to do it if you don't have the confidence. You should be able find someone who has the smarts to both remove the equiment and also to make the patch.
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What did your contract say about cleanup and swamp coolers?
Sure, I know, you didn't go to the trouble of getting one. You should have. The job he bid was exactly as he thought it was. Unfortunately, you didn't do your homework. Shame on you.

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