Desk Light Transformer

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On 6/12/2016 2:57 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:

Hmmm... load was too reactive for the UPS?
[Why does the UPS run the household lights? How big a UPS? How is it tied in to the general lighting circuit?]
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The UPS manages to power anything else, motors, etc, etc.

My incoming mains is often too high a voltage. The UPS steps it down if it is. The lights last longer.

1500VA, 960W.

It's primarily for the computer etc. But I took the wire going into the output of the lighting fuse in the fusebox and ran it to a plug which plugs in where the computer does.
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On 6/14/2016 11:48 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:

Motors are typ lagging power factor; capacitors, leading.

Ah, OK. Incandescent lamps? Or, LED/fluorescent?
In the former case, you can purchase "commercial" bulbs that are rated for 130V (instead of 120). This reduces light output, a bit. But, also gives you a longer lasting bulb (heavier filament). Until dimmable LED's become affordable, all of our "lamps on dimmers" are commercial incandescents.

You might look for a CVT (constant voltage transformer). As they don't rely on "actives" as much, you can usually get much higher capacity than would be practical in a solid state UPS.
[I had a "Lion Tamer" -- a play on the phrase "line tamer" or perhaps vice versa? -- that was pretty capable. Also, pretty big and heavy -- as it's lots of copper and iron! :< ]

Ick! An inspector seeing that, here, would probably not know whether to "sh*t or go blind!" In either case, you wouldn't be happy with his "action"!
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It's also happy with cheap shit PC PSUs. And since it has a VA rating and a W rating, I assume they've allowed for phases.

Has been all 3. Moving towards LED as the other two wear out, now almost all LED.

I also want the UPS to run the computer for a few seconds or minutes when the power goes off, so I don't corrupt the disks.

This one is pretty heavy - it's an APC SmartUPS 1500.

Why would I let an inspector into my own home?
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On 6/14/2016 1:21 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:

Understood. I'm suggesting different usage. You didn't claim you wanted the *lights* to survive a power outage; just protect them from high mains voltages.

I have three of those (two + a spare) for my automation system.
The lion tamer was much heavier! More like this in terms of weight: <
http://the-xperts.com/upload/images/UPS/apc%20ups%202200%20.jpg
(you'll recognize the top as similar to your UPS; the entire bottom is batteries!)

Ever think of selling it? :>
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Why do you consider a fuse in a plug different to a fuse in a fusebox? The circuit is still protected by a 5A fuse.
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On 6/14/2016 4:13 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:

What happens when the "lighting fuse in the fusebox" is installed?
If you've literally run it to a *plug*, then when that fusebox fuse is present, the blades of the "plug" are hot, can be touched by someone who's not cautious, can be "plugged into" another circuit which could cause the attached cord to end up carrying a portion of the load intended to be carried by the house wiring *or* could cause the mains to be shorted (if an unpolarized plug that you plugged in "backwards" *or* a polarized plug that you've plugged into a circuit on the other "leg" of the mains!)
Or, the UPS can see mains voltage *impressed* on its outputs.
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Nope. The wire that was coming from the fuse to the lights, now comes from the plug to the lights. None of what you said is possible. Why on earth would I connect the lights to two sources?
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On 6/15/2016 1:28 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:

I don't see how you've done this.
The mains go to the load center. Through a fuse/breaker to a branch circuit. The branch circuit feeds the lights.
This wiring is typically *inside* the walls of a structure.
You appear to be suggesting that you removed the wire from the load side of the fuse (*in* the load center) and connected *to* this wire a "plug". That plug can now be mated with a receptacle (e.g., in your UPS).
But, that plug is attached to a wire that travels up through the wall (is your residence wired different than 99.97735% of the homes, here?).
So, you either have a cord dangling out of the load center with a plug on the end.
Or, have a cord running to an outlet or some other point accessible INSIDE the residence (but NOT within the walls themselves) that is wired to the lighting branch circuit.
*AND*, a wire dangling inside the load center, unconnected.
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More illogical assumptions, nothing dangles anywhere. The wire from the load side of the fuse was disconnected from the fuse. So any fuse in there can supply precisely nothing. That wire (still leading down the inside of the wall to the light switches) was extended to a flex running out of the load centre to the UPS's output strip, via a standard mains plug. So basically I have a bunch of lights operated by a mains plug, just like a standard lamp or table lamp does. Removing that plug from the UPS causes me to have a plug with lamps on the other end, much like.... a table lamp.
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On 6/15/2016 4:45 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So, you've got a wire coming out of the load center EXACTLY as I said above. An inspector would immediately shut that down, here. You've got a *plug* on the end of a wire leaving the load center, correct?
How do you think an inspector is going to see that as legitimate?

Does the plug from your "table lamp" pass through the load center, then out and into some other source of power?
(I think not)
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What do you think is wrong with a plug leading to a wire which goes through a wall? Load centre nothing to do with it. The wire just happens to pass through there, it's not connected to the load centre.

But not connected to it.

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On 6/15/2016 5:56 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:

An inspector, here, would flag any wire coming out of a load center with a plug on the end of it.
If you wanted to supply power to your household branch circuits THROUGH an alternate power source, you'd be required to install a transfer switch.
If folks where YOU are think nothing of it, then why would you not be willing to invite an inspector over?

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Why?

I have no need to transfer anything, the lights only have one source, the UPS.

1) They most likely have rules as nonsensical as yours. 2) Why would I want an inspector to inspect my own house? I know it's fine. 3) If I was selling, it takes 5 minutes to put the wire back where it was. It's my UPS and I'd be taking it with me.

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On 6/16/2016 2:54 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:

Pull the main breaker.
Better yet, REMOVE THE METER.
Load center should be "safe", right? Every wire nut should be removable, every conductor touchable. The source of power has been completely removed from *everything*!
In your scheme, who's to say ALL of the circuits aren't still being powered by a 20KW genset behind the house? Is there any indication that there is another ACTIVE source of power in play (e.g., like a transfer switch)?
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No, because I know I have a UPS. Same goes for people with solar panels on their roof.

You don't seem to understand how I've wired it despite me telling you several times. The lighting circuit and UPS don't connect to anything in the fusebox.
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On 6/16/2016 8:22 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:

The fire department, electrician, etc. don't know that.
*I* know I have a genset. But, just wiring it into the fuse box -- even KNOWING that I have to ensure that the breakers to which it attaches would have to be switched off prior to use -- doesn't count.
The same goes for solar panels.
A transfer switch IN PROXIMITY TO THE LOAD CENTER tells anyone who attempts to access the load center that there is an alternate source of power potentially available. EVEN IF YOU AREN'T AVAILABLE TO TELL THEM THAT!
I can "safely" wire my genset output to any of the branch circuits inside my house. And, dutifully disconnect the associated breakers. Even disconnect the wires *from* the breakers and cap them off with wire nuts/tape.
That doesn't mean it will pass an inspection!

The wires pass through the fuse box. And, I'm 100% sure there is a wire nut involved (or equivalent). Simple question to answer: yes or no?
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On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 1:53:02 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

Yous guys should go find a room! :D /█\ .Π.
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lid> wrote:

Holy fuck that looks quite realistic in Opera.
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I don't care for inspectors with silly rules. Every house does not have to adhere to some standard or other. Things can be different, viva la difference! I know where my electricity goes, and anyone else can work it out with the use of only a few brain cells (not that anyone would be tampering with my house). Eg if the lights are still on when you turn off the main switch, there's power from somewhere else.

I don't know what a wire nut is. A small piece of connector strip is used, like this:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/415fuVyag1L._SY300_.jpg
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