Reportedly four year old 93% efficient furnace of unknown brand in a house the I am buying and just had inspected. Should the heat exchanger be replaced or the furnace replaced?
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17 years ago
Cracked heat exchanger
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- posted
17 years ago
Absolutely not for safety reasons.
One of the biggest scams of the hvac business hoodlums is telling customers that the crack in their heat exchanger is dangerous and shut down the system.
Since time began, no one has been made sick or died because of a cracked heat exchanger. Don't let those crooks tell you otherwise.
Did you know that there are tens of millions of americans that are burning fuel with 100 percent of the combustion byproducts being released inside the living quarters. You ever hear of coleman stoves or room heaters or wall furnaces?
Did you know that because the pressures involved just about guarantee that none of the combustion fumes from a cracked heat exchanger enter the airstream.
If you know of a crooked hvac person that actually shuts down the system with cracked heat exchanger, report him widely as a dishonest person. He is just trying to rob you and has the morals of a snake.
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17 years ago
Would you have any evidence for this article of faith?
I know one person who died of CO in NYC.
Nick
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17 years ago
Around here they're legally required to tag it and notify the gas company. It then has to be replaced in 30 days or the gas will be shut off.
The guy that inspected the furnace in the house that we bought last fall noted that it was bad, but didn't tag it because it would cause all sorts of hassles right during the ownership transfer period.
Chris
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17 years ago
Is true in America?
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17 years ago
Please post the web site of the code that says that.
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17 years ago
I can't...its not available online, and it costs about $180 for a copy.
Note that I'm up in Canada.
The guy who did our furnace inspection mentioned that he would do the replacement install if we wanted but he normally doesn't do installs. He also didn't make any specific recomendations as to who we should get to do the install.
Chris
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17 years ago
Post your facts and where you get them instead of talking nonsense about pressure and combustion fumes with a cracked heat exchanger. Anyone who has this type of issue are incouraged to seek professional guidance instead of listening to this garbage. They will sleep better at night......And it's always nice to wake up in the morning.
-paul
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17 years ago
Yes it is possible to have carbon monoxide leak into the home from a heat exchanger in a inducer draft fan furnace. The pressure with in the heat exchanger is still greater then that out side it until the blower kicks in and even then the risk of pulling C02 in to the house air is present.
Yes deaths have occurred here just a few:
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17 years ago
Apparently not... :-)
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17 years ago
After some more digging, I did find something. See the "Red Tag Program" link at:
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It looks like its even more stringent than I thought. According to that document, a cracked heat exchanger is technically considered a "hazardous condition". This requires either immediate repair or else turning off the gas to the appliance and notifying the gas utility.
Chris
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17 years ago
Please look at the header and note that this discussion is only about cracked heat exchangers. Not one of the your postings concerns a death from a cracked heat exchanger.
The reason is because there has never been a death from a cracked heat exchanger.
Sure there are lots of co2 deaths. Sure, there are lots of deaths from furnaces that are defective. But never has anyone died from a properly working furnace that happened to have a cracked heat exchanger.
It is just physically impossible to get enough co2 into the living quarters to cause a fatality from a cracked heat exchanger. Can't happn. Never happened and never will happen.
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17 years ago
The heat exchanger can be replaced. There is no safety issue if it's done properly.
On the other hand, the above responce with the others following are from a complete IDIOT.
They can and do become dangerous...
You better do research next time, before you make yourself look like a complete IDIOT, Einstein.
Do you realize that NOTHING burns 100% ? And this means that there is CO entering a home if the appliance isn't vented!!
BULLSHIT!! You better go back to school to see if you can ACTUALLY learn something this time around.
Yeah, report him... he's just trying to save your life.
That's a crime you know!
The responce you recieved in this post by Deke is completely INACCURATE.
I hope like hell he's NOT in the HVAC business... otherwise he's not only giving BAD advice on usenet, but his clients are likely to be living in dangerous homes!!!!
The only thing true that Deke stated.... is on the line below...
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17 years ago
The fact is the AGA's regulations tell us what and what is not allowed. Cracks in heat exchangers are not allowed. Since the AGA has said no crack or hole is acceptable what sort of legal defense would you mount if someone became ill or died regardless of whether or not the crack was relevant?
BS. The average person below poverty in the US has multiple color TVs and a car.
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17 years ago
Man, you really are a clueless twit...
You make Chris look like a professional.
I will suggest AGAIN, that you quit posting about a subject, that you know NOTHING about.
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- posted
17 years ago
Cracked heat exchangers should be replaced. No argument there.
But most gas furnaces do not produce much co. The supply air is way over capacity. And the systems are designed so that a crack in the heat exchanger does not automatically result in combustion byproducts in the conditioned air. The air pressure outside the heat exchanger is higher than the air pressure inside the heat exchanger. The result is that air goes into the heat exchanger from the crack, not out of it. That's why the fan is always ahead of the heat exchanger. Bottom line is the unit produces a small amount of total co. Maybe a tiny amount of the total combustion product gets through the crack against the higher outside pressure. What you're talking about is a very small percentage of an already small percentage.
I've seen significantly cracked/rusted heat exchangers, so cracked that the flames start dancing around when the fan kicks on. Obviously been leaking for a while. Yet these same houses have co detectors and they have never gone off.
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17 years ago
Then you should probably do a little research and understand what a regular UL listed CO detector actually detects and what a real CO detector is. Bubba
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17 years ago
Really? Can you point me to any? I'm getting concerned because the CO2 levels in my house are very high. I can even fell it every time I breath. And it reeks of nitrogen too.
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17 years ago
Obviously James you do not represent a journeyman level of technician if you fail to red tag such situations. Its black & white in the building code. Have you ever read the mechanical codes?
As Bubba said, you'd be wise to educate yourself on levels of co that are hazardous to human health and the levels that are required to trigger most UL approved smoke detectors.
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17 years ago
If the crack was not relevant, that would be the defense to a civil suit. People are only liable for their negligence if their negligence actually causes some harm. If it actually has something to do with causing the damages. How much relationship and proximate cause are things I don't remember and can't explain anymore.
Of course it can be hard to prove it's not relevant, and it might be even harder to prove it to a jury which might be concerned about the poor person who suffered the damages. Because after all, how did they become ill or die if not because of something the owner of the house did that he shouldn't have done? He tripped and fell down the stairs? He tripped and felll down the stairs because he was groggy from the CO?
But I still wanted to make the point.
I see on tv court shows pretty something else that is similar. People who believe that if the other driver doesn't have a license, or has a suspended license, that is relevant to their civil suit against him, when really it's only whether or not he was driving negligently that is relevant.
Being unlicensed is between him and the state government.