I'm going to be doing some plumbing, never worked with CPVC, and wanted opinions on it.
Putting in a water softener. All plumbing will be on the cold supply side. I have existing copper 3/4".
Will need 20' 3/4" line, 3 shut-offs, and various L's & T's & 90's.
Wondering from anyone, about the shut offs of CPVC compared to copper. My existing copper shut offs tend to get corroded. Does CPVC hold up better than copper over long term?
I've researched the CPVC vs Copper debate, but failed to find anything about the shut offs.
I'm leaning towards CPVC, because I believe I can save a few bucks. But, is it worth it?
When I plumbed our house back in 2003 I considered copper, PEX, and CPVC piping.
Copper was the most common, but our acidic water could potentially cause pinhole leaks down the road. Copper also requires a torch to solder the joints, and while the risks are minimal with proper precautions, there was always a small chance of starting a fire with the torch. That year there just happened to be two new construction fires in my area caused by the plumbers (By professional's, no less). It also takes a bit of skill to solder copper fittings efficiently.
PEX has many advantages, but at the time the cost of the crimping tools was more than I paid for our entire plumbing system. PEX was also harder to find than CPVC or copper. While availability has improved in recent years, it's still harder to find the parts and tools.
In the end, I chose CPVC. It's inexpensive, easy to install with simple tools, pipe and fittings are widely available from virtually any hardware store, repairs/modifications are easy when/if needed, and it's not affected by acidic or poor quality water.
However, like any other plastic, CPVC doesn't handle physical stresses very well. So, anywhere I had a shutoff valve (sinks, toilets, etc.), I transitioned from CPVC to brass drop-ear elbows and used brass nipples to install metal valves. Much more secure and rugged than plastic.
I did use some PVC ball valves in our pump house, and have mixed feelings about them. They don't corrode like some metal valves can, but they tend to "stick" when they sit unused for a while. But I'm usually more worried about breaking the PVC pipe on either side of the valve trying to "unstick" the PVC valve. For what it's worth, I have two different brass ball valves in our house (with nylon seals internally), and they tend to stick also. Again, the stresses on the connecting CPVC piping worry me more than the valve itself.
My recommendation is to use metal valves and anchoring them to a solid surface. You can then transition to whatever piping you prefer to use.
I have several different types of valves in our plumbing system and the metal "gate" valve I have in our pump house has been the most trouble free over the past 5-10 years.
Back up a second there, old hoss. You said you plumbed a house for less than the cost of a crimping tool? Say what? Crimpers are just calibrated pliers - the "expensive" name brand ones have never been over ~$150. Here's a link from August 2003 - the price of a crimper was $99.
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you were thinking of a Wirsbo expander...?
Would you choose differently six years later? PEX is less expensive, needs very few fittings, the _complete_ tool set costs about $100, is easier to repair and modify, can stand up to far more abuse, etc.
You may be entirely alone on that opinion. Ball valves are far less troublesome and can lay "dormant" for years without seizing up - rarely the case with a gate valve.
Hmm... I could have sworn the calibrated crimpers were around $300 at the time, but my memory isn't as good as it used to be. :) In any case, even $150 will buy a LOT of CPVC pipe and fittings.
Yes, if the pipe and fittings were readily available locally I wouldn't hesitate to go with PEX. It was a real toss up between PEX and CPVC back in 2003, and I only opted for CPVC because PEX supplies were hard to find (and the tools were expensive).
Still, I'm familiar with CPVC and it works well for our situation.
I can run down to the local hardware store in our little town if I need one extra CPVC fitting on a weekend I forgot to buy for a project (or if I goofed up the installation and need to redo the work). While I've seen PEX "pipe" at the home centers (farther away), I haven't really paid attention whether they have the fittings or not. I'm sure the "real" plumbing store on the other side of town would probably have them, but they're not very convenient.
Yeah, I've heard that many times before, but my results have been completely opposite. Weird. I have a variety of ball valves (plastic, and two different styles of brass ball valves) in our system, and they all tend to "stick". Even the fixture shutoff's (all ball valves) tend to stick a little, though not as bad as the ones in our 3/4" main lines.
I needed to shut off our main water supply a couple of months ago while on vacation, and felt like I was going to break the surrounding pipes trying to close the valve. After 5-10 minutes of fiddling with it I finally got it to close, and then had a similar struggle to open it again when we got home. I easily closed the gate valve in our pump house also, just to be safe.
Another ball valve in our recirculation system is always a struggle to open and close also.
Kind of disappointing since I bought the best valves I could find in hopes of preventing problems like that. If the valves were well anchored to something solid I'm sure the force needed to close them would be a non-issue, but mine are mounted directly inline on plastic pipe. Live and learn. That's why I suggested anchoring the valves in my original post. :)
Even if you go with the cpvc, you'll still want to use the brass ball valves. So that's not a consideration. You might just as well learn to sweat copper, (i'm guessing you don't know how yet) and do it up right.
and plastic ball valves are junk. I've broken several playing with them in the store. so the only option really is to use brass ball valves with the plastic also.
After looking at the savings of using CPVC, I wouldn't be saving a whole lot for my size project. Went out in the garage, seen I have plenty of 3/4" copper pipe & enough fittings for my entire job. The only thing is I have to buy is 3 valves.
Oh well, it was interesting finding out what everyone has to say about CPVC. I did notice while looking at CPVC, the ID appears smaller than copper, haven't looked that up. If so, I would probably lose some pressure.
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