control boards in modern appliances

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in the last 3 years i bought a GE refrigerator, a Jenn Air oven and a whirlpool dishwasher.
within 2 years, ALL of them blew out their control boards. anyone have any idea what's up with all this? who the hell needs control boards in refrigerators or dishwashers or ovens? this is ridiculous and seems to be an effort by companies to create repair business.
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I bet you had a big surge or a nearby lightning strike, or you presently dont get clean power. I had lightning nearby blow out over 10,000$ worth of stuff, since then I installed a main panel lightning arrestor and surge protector , individual surge protectors and upgraded ground. Start by checking you have 120 or so then look into protection. Is your area hit by lightning often.
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I bet you had a big surge or a nearby lightning strike, or you presently dont get clean power. I had lightning nearby blow out over 10,000$ worth of stuff, since then I installed a main panel lightning arrestor and surge protector , individual surge protectors and upgraded ground. Start by checking you have 120 or so then look into protection. Is your area hit by lightning often.
*I would also check the grounding electrode system. Check the ground rod connections. If it is an old house, install new ground rods. Check the water pipe connection. Make sure the ground connections are tight in the main panel.
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On 9/22/2010 7:17 AM, John Grabowski wrote:

It smartens everything up, you can better "mileage" out of your electricity. The cycling has gotten sophisticated, not sure what the advantage would be for an oven but it is substantial for devices with compressors in them.

That, I think is excellent advise.
I think it's time to redo my grounding (on the cold water line). Grounding wasn't so important in '29!
Jeff
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wrote:

Although you always want the cold water line BONDED to the grounding system, it should never be THE ground. In fact, it does not meet code for that use. For that you need a properly installed grounding rod at the service entrance.
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

The purpose of attaching the electrical ground to a water pipe is not to ground the electrical system, it's to ground the plumbing system.
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wrote:

That's what I said.
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On 9/22/2010 11:17 AM, snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

I believe he said that for my benefit, not to correct you.
I'll pick up some ground rods and rewire. I've only ever had modems blow... not power. Still...
Jeff
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

Ah, I see. I didn't mean to correct you - you didn't need correcting - I was just pointing out that the purpose of connecting a wire to the plumbing system is to prevent someone from getting shocked by touching a pipe, not to prevent a shock from touching a toaster.
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Years ago, when the water department put in plastic meters, they had to put a large metal strap from one side to the other. Other than that, metal plumbing pipes are supposed to be grounded, unless there is a bit of plastic pipe in there some where.
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HeyBub wrote:

I really don't understand where this nonsense comes from.
The NEC *requires* that a water service pipe, if it is at least 10 ft of metal in the earth, be used as an earthing electrode. It has been a requirement since 1777 (more or less). Also bonding is required across the water meter.
Rules have changed somewhat, including now the connection to the water service pipe must be within 5 feet of where the pipe enters the building.
For over 50 years the NEC has required a "supplemental" electrode for water pipe electrodes *if* the water service pipe was likely to be replaced by plastic. Years ago the code was changed to just routinely require a "supplemental" electrode. Ground rods were routinely used. The NEC requires the resistance to earth for a ground rod be 25 ohms or less, or else 2 rods can be used. It is easiest to just install 2 rods. Ground rods are a poor earthing electrode (25 ohms is slightly better than nothing). A metal water service pipe is a good electrode, particularly if connected to a metal municipal water system. The code now requires, for most new construction, a "concrete encased electrode", commonly called a Ufer ground, be an earthing electrode. This is a good electrode, and replaces the ground rod(s) as a supplemental electrode when needed.
Only if the water service pipe is not metal does the NEC require *bonding* of the interior water pipe (instead of using the service pipe as an earthing electrode). The rules are similar, but not identical, to use as an earthing electrode.
************** In addition to checking the earthing system, I would check the neutral-ground bond, which should be at the service disconnect. If it is not present, the hot and neutral wire potential could rise far above the ground wire, which in some cases cause damage. The bond is often a screw that looks like a mounting screw for the neutral bar. Recent ones are likely green.
--
bud--

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wrote:

Please consult with the building department inspector in any city in the U.S.
Grounding your electrical system via the water service pipe alone does not meet code anywhere that I have ever heard of. Yes, you must bond the water service pipe to the electrical system for safety, but a separate earth ground for the system is ALWAYS required to meet code.
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manufacturers love control boards since they let the manufacturer decide when any products end of life is.
many can work around mechanical stuff but a dead board thats no longer made is the end of that device....
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

Please consult with the National Electrical Code "250.50 Grounding Electrode System. All grounding electrodes as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(7) that are present at each building or structure served shall be bonded together to form the grounding electrode system."
"250.52(A)(1) Metal Underground Water Pipe. A metal underground water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 3.0 m (10 ft) or more...."
A water pipe in the ground for 10 ft (described by 250.52(A)(1)) MUST be used as a grounding electrode (by 250.50).
This has been in the NEC far longer than any of the code books I have (oldest one is 1968). I think it goes back to 1777 - one of the first things the Continental Congress did

It meets the code in my house. It was code compliant when installed so it is compliant now. That probably applies to millions of houses.

As I wrote, bonding rules are different. You only "bond" if the water service pipe is not used as a grounding electrode. See above - if a metal pipe is 10 ft in the earth it is *REQUIRED* to be used as a grounding electrode.
Don't confuse bonding with use as a grounding electrode.

A "supplemental" electrode was not *always* required until the 1978 NEC.
It is "supplemental" because it supplements the main electrode - the water pipe. Ground rods were commonly used - they are close to a joke. A water pipe is far better.
My house had the service upgraded before 1978 and does not have a "supplemental" electrode. It is code compliant.
The NEC Handbook says "The requirement to supplement the metal water pipe is based on the practice of using plastic pipe for replacement when the original metal water pipe fails." Water pipe is a good electrode. The problem is it may be replaced by plastic in the future.
Contrary to what seems to be a common internet opinion, water pipe (metal, 10 ft...) is *REQUIRED* to be a grounding electrode. Read the NEC (relevant quotes provided).
--
bud--

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wrote:

You are misunderstanding what you are reading, Bud. Please don't become another w_tom. One is enough!
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

Perhaps you could explain.
The relevant code was provided and is perfectly clear. If it meets the description in 250.52(A)(1) (10 ft metal in the ground) it MUST be used as an earthing electrode (250.50).

One of w_tom, aka westom's, rants was that not only was a water service pipe not required to be used as a earthing electrode, it must absolutely not be used as an earthing electrode. One of his most bizarre posts was on the subject.
--
bud--

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wrote:

But cannot be used as the SOLE earthing electrode. For good reason.
Sort of along the lines of the automobile inspections they used to require in my state when you registered an older vehicle...
You were not required to have glass in the side windows, but if you did, it could not be cracked. I got a pickup truck with a cracked side window through inspection by rolling it down, and removing the crank handle.
The water service inlet pipe, if it meets the specs, must absolutely be connected to the grid, but it does not qualify by itself as THE earthing ground for the system.

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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

It is the sole earthing electrode in my code compliant house.
I said in both posts that a "supplemental" electrode is required for all new services since the 1978 NEC (and some before then).

The good reason is, repeating from the NEC Handbook, "The requirement to supplement the metal water pipe is based on the practice of using plastic pipe for replacement when the original metal water pipe fails. This leaves the system without a grounding electrode unless a supplementary electrode is provided." A water pipe electrode is far better than the ground rods that were used as "supplementary" electrodes. Ground rods are there in case the metal water pipe disappears. (Fortunately ground rods are not likely to be used in new construction.)

You said that the water pipe was not to be used as an earthing electrode. "Although you always want the cold water line BONDED to the grounding system, it should never be THE ground. In fact, it does not meet code for that use."
In fact a water service pipe (metal, 10 ft...) has been required for a very long time to be an earthing electrode. It is clear from the NEC quotes provided. And I have always said *an* electrode, not *the* electrode. It is connected as an earthing electrode with a "grounding electrode conductor" using specific rules.
If the water pipe is not metal, 10 ft... it is not required to be used as an earthing electrode and then is "bonded for safety" under specific bonding rules.
--
bud--

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wrote:

Go stand in the pedantic corner with w_tom
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

All I know is what I read.
--
bud--

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