Contractor question - workman's compensation

[Dan_Musicant]

I've made arrangements to have my water main replaced by a licensed plumbing contractor in CA. I just met him last night and the work isn't going to start for a week, so I can back out of this if I call him today or tomorrow easily enough. I have another decent bid and I could go with them (a pretty large company).

I just looked up his license and he's a sole owner and it says "This license is exempt from having workers compensation insurance; they certified that they have no employees at this time."

He said he'd try to hire a tough competent guy to help with the trenching. What happens if that guy is hurt on the job? Am I going to be liable?

TIA for information.

Dan

[RBM]

Essentially they are both covered by your homeowners policy

[gfretwell]

As soon as he hires a guy he is working outside the scope of his license. I am a SP myself and the only way I can hire labor is to get it from another licensed, bonded, insured company unless I want to expose myself to lawyers and possible sanctions from the state.

99% of the time nothing bad really happens and you get away with it but you must be prepared for that 1%. If his labor is also licensed as an SP you have reduced liability but we are in a country where anyone can sue anybody for damn near anything.

[Joseph Meehan]

You need to check with your state. They don't all have the same rules. It has happened around here that the home owner ended up with the bill.

[Tom The Great]

imho:

If he states one thing to one official and then another to you, could be truthful? Based on that, you might want to rethink about the situation. Have him furnish paper work proving his current insurances, he might have upgraded since he started working. If not, use common sense.

Not a Lawyer, or a legal offical.

tom @

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Even more essential, you are screwed if there is a major clam. He should also have liability insurance.

[RBM]

He's probably required to have liability, but if he works alone, isn't always required

[RBM]

Sorry, screwed that up. He probably is required to have liability, but if he works alone, isn't always required to have workers comp

[RBM]

I think you hit the nail on the head, when an accident happens, everyone gets sued

[Dan_Musicant]

:Essentially they are both covered by your homeowners policy

Don't have one. I have fire insurance but because my house needs major improvements my insurance broker refuses to write me a general homeowner's policy.

Dan

:> I just looked up his license and he's a sole owner and it says "This :> license is exempt from having workers compensation insurance; they :> certified that they have no employees at this time." :>

:> He said he'd try to hire a tough competent guy to help with the :> trenching. What happens if that guy is hurt on the job? Am I going to be :> liable? :>

:> TIA for information. :>

:> Dan :

[RBM]

That being the case, I would avoid anyone without the full compliment of insurances

[George]

Foe sure, here is an example where a reckless hooftie is suing the police because they chased him when he was driving his quad on city streets:

[Steve B]

Good grief, Dan! I hate the words "should" and "probably" and the likes.

With all the frivolous litigations going on, your state being one of the leaders, (no offense), why would you want to even mess with someone you have any doubts about?

To save some money perhaps?

Imagine the worst thing that can happen. Someone gets killed. You think ANYONE is going to give you a walk? I doubt it.

Take everything you own. Pile it in the house. Spread five gallons of gas on it. If there is an accident, that's what's gonna happen to all your stuff.

Insist that your CONTRACTOR'S INSURANCE CARRIER send DIRECTLY TO YOU a copy of their current in force policy. Don't accept it from your contractor, as they can be and are faked easily.

This is a big deal. Do it right. Your ass is the only one on the line you should be concerned about.

Steve

[Colbyt]

I read all the post to date.

To answer your question. Maybe.

If he hires another licensed insured contractor and they both waive worker-comp rights in the interest to freely contract for work under the uniform commercial code. Then where I am your butt would be covered. In the People Republic of CA, I don't have a clue.

By the same measurement, here, if he hired an unlicensed person without your consent or knowledge you would be covered.

Since you do not have a homeowner's policy to fall back on, I suggest you proceed with extreme caution and CYA.

Colbyt

[wildo]

If you value your house do not hire uninsured contractors if they get hurt on your property (with no homeowners insurance) they will sue you for your property. or let them do the job and fire them before they hit the ground (while falling).

I would cancel the contract within 3 days. Hire someone reputable with all insurances.

| :> I just looked up his license and he's a sole owner and it says "This | :> license is exempt from having workers compensation insurance; they | :> certified that they have no employees at this time." | :>

| :> He said he'd try to hire a tough competent guy to help with the | :> trenching. What happens if that guy is hurt on the job? Am I going to be | :> liable? | :>

| :> TIA for information. | :>

| :> Dan | : |

[The Streets]

It's not always possible to get worker's comp insurance. For example, here in Georgia no one writes worker's comp for sole proprieters.

[Norminn]

You might not be liable, but that might not be determined until someone sues and you litigate. I am all for hiring contractors who are equipped to do the job, which means adequate tools and equipment. A contractor who has to "try to hire a tough competent guy" is not equipped to do your work. There is a big difference between cheap and economical, and some folks never figure out the difference.

We had a painter hired by our condo assn. to do some small exterior paint jobs. He knocked on my door and asked to borrow a paint brush! He hit up another resident for lunch money!

I, personally, would not bid on a job I was not prepared to complete. Life is too short. There is probably a contractor with a fleet of trucks and a yard full of heavy equipment. Why not hire the folks with experience?

[Dan_Musicant]

:If you value your house :do not hire uninsured contractors :if they get hurt on your property (with no homeowners insurance) they :will sue you for your property. :or let them do the job and fire them before they hit the ground (while :falling). : :I would cancel the contract within 3 days. :Hire someone reputable with all insurances.

I didn't sign anything. It was a handshake deal and we agreed that unless I call and cancel (within a day or two), he'd just assume the deal was on and he'd show up next Wednesday (6 days away now).

I called him last night and left a message that there is something I have to ask him. He hasn't returned the call (it's about 18 hours later). I have a mind to call the company who is doing my sewer laterals and ask if they'll do the job the way I want it done and just go with them. They've treated me very well, all in all, I feel. Then I'll call this uninsured guy and just say I have to pass on it. Thanks.

[Dan_Musicant]

On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:16:19 GMT, Norminn wrote:

:Dan_Musicant wrote: :> I've made arrangements to have my water main replaced by a licensed :> plumbing contractor in CA. I just met him last night and the work isn't :> going to start for a week, so I can back out of this if I call him today :> or tomorrow easily enough. I have another decent bid and I could go with :> them (a pretty large company). :> :> I just looked up his license and he's a sole owner and it says "This :> license is exempt from having workers compensation insurance; they :> certified that they have no employees at this time." :> :> He said he'd try to hire a tough competent guy to help with the :> trenching. What happens if that guy is hurt on the job? Am I going to be :> liable? :> :> TIA for information. :> :> Dan : :You might not be liable, but that might not be determined until someone :sues and you litigate. I am all for hiring contractors who are equipped :to do the job, which means adequate tools and equipment. A contractor :who has to "try to hire a tough competent guy" is not equipped to do :your work. There is a big difference between cheap and economical, and :some folks never figure out the difference. : :We had a painter hired by our condo assn. to do some small exterior :paint jobs. He knocked on my door and asked to borrow a paint brush! He :hit up another resident for lunch money! : :I, personally, would not bid on a job I was not prepared to complete. :Life is too short. There is probably a contractor with a fleet of :trucks and a yard full of heavy equipment. Why not hire the folks with :experience?

I think this guy pretty much has the experience. The toughest aspect of this job (everything else appears to be very easy) is going to be tunneling under the sidewalk to run copper tubing from the meter under my front lawn. Even the big plumbing company who are doing my sewer laterals said they thought that might be tough. The reason is that the water meter is RIGHT next to a pretty large tree, and there are sure to be roots pretty thick in there. So, they anticipate running directly from the meter AWAY from the tree trunk for a few feet, and THEN under the sidewalk. Still, you can't see what's under there and it could be tough.

I asked the uninsured guy how you get pipe under the sidewalk and he described in detail the device used. I didn't ask him if he owns it or is going to borrow or rent it.

I think he'd probably do a very good job. I'm just concerned about the insurance angle on this. I don't want to expose myself to risk and as people are saying in this thread, unless I have some solid assurances I should assume I'm taking quite a risk in hiring this guy. His bid is only $100 under the big company's ($2200 vs. $2399), although he says he'll use 3/4" L copper under the house. I may ask the big company if they will do that. Or, I may just accept 3/4" M under there.

[RicodJour]

You would be, yes.

Have the plumber hire a sub and provide the necessary proofs of insurance. Or, hire a general laborer from a temp employment agency (some of them specialize in construction help). Then the temp agency has the necessary workmen's comp covered. Still get proof.

R