Connecting an Alternator to horse drawn buggy

[alvinamorey]

I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring a delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems.

1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel hub. I can sort of see a means to attach a belt pulley, but the belt would have to connect to a shaft or it would be outside too far.

1. Alternators will not charge until they reach a specific RPM. I doubt the buggy wheels would reach that. This means a gear assembly would be needed to increase the rpm. I also heard that some tractor alternators charge at a lower RPM, so I have to check into that.

Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has anyone ever done anything like this?

I'm having fun with this project....

Alvin

[Terminal Crazy]

Well I immediatly thought of solar panels but then had an idea about using a small wind turbine. It would work night & day and put out about 2-6 Amps @12v.

If there was enough clearance on the inside of the wheel between it & the body, fix full pully wheels around the diameter and use a long belt. That would give you the gearing you need without much loss in power or slippage.

I'll not to draw it in ASCII art

HTH

[The Freon Cowboy]

look into a generator as compared to an alternator , produces voltage at lower rpms , years ago , cabooses on trains had a similar system the wheels would turn a generator which would charge storage batteries for 12 volt systems on the caboose , as far as mounting the drive gear or pulley , look into mounting a pulley directly to the spokes with the center of the pulley , lining up with the center of the drive wheel , then its a simple matter of mounting the gen or alt , and using a belt , a fully loaded alternator will require a bit of horsepower to keep it turning and you may actually find that it will produce so much drag as to actually cause to drive whell to lock up once it fully enrgizes , thats why i suggest using a generator ,

cant beleive a fully charged deep cycle would only last 8 hours in this instance , unless they are using headlights also ,

[e-mail] wrote:

horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteriesnwhich last about

7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amishoneighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to oneeof them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to thetwheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiringba delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems. in1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel

[Bumpy]

They have LED lights now and they use very little current, all auto stores have them.

>

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

I expect they are. I agree with you that a generator is the way to go. They were used for years on both cars and airplanes and will generate electricity with virtually any movement at all. The reason the auto and aircraft industry shifted to alternators was the more even output. A car with a generator would darken its lights markedly at a red light whereas a car equipped with an alternator would not.

You can get one at JC Whitney for as little as $84.

(Sorry for the long URL... alternately just go to and do a search for "generator".

[ransley]

Leds are more efficient , my bicycle light of 5 red leds lasts 300 hours on 2 AA batteries. Getting enough rpm will be hard if the wheel spins on the axle, you will need alot of gearing to get prm fast enough to spin the generator. With Leds the battery will last many times longer.

[N8N]

No they don't. In fact higher output at lower RPMs is one of the main reasons that alternators replaced generators. The other being lighter weight.

nate

[salty]

Attack the problem from the other end. Install LED lights. They will draw about 90% less electricity. If you want to get really fancy, you could find a spot on the buggy for a modest solar panel to keep the battery charged.

I replaced all the navigation lights on my sailboat and the difference in power consuption is astonishing. I also no longer have to be winched up the mast to replace burnt out incandescent bulbs. The LED's will outlast me and the boat.

[HerHusband]

Alvin,

I don't know much about the Amish, but I thought the idea was to avoid modern technology? Couldn't they use lanterns as was done before electrical lights were available?

Otherwise, I'd start with a switch to more efficient lighting so the battery lasts longer.

I don't know if they still make them, but once upon a time you could get lights for bicycles that were powered by a little generator that ran on the top of the bike tire. Seems like it would be easy to adapt to a buggy.

Otherwise, maybe you could install a small gas powered generator? A hybrid buggy? :)

But it seems like it's getting away from the Amish ideals to me?

Anthony

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, How about solar panel?

[Tony Hwang]

And LED lights which draws very small amount of current.

[AZ Nomad]

Use lanterns. If you're going to live in the bronze age, then electric lighting isn't available.

[Chris Lewis]

According to HerHusband :

It's not so much an avoidance of "modern technology", it's more of an avoidance of depending on outside resources. Electricity isn't as much of an issue as being connected to the grid is. Tho, it depends on "which" Amish you're talking about. There are different levels of interpretation, and different levels of willingness to adapt to the modern world.

Eg: they won't have a car. But most won't turn down a ride in one if it's going somewhere they need to go, and some aren't shy about asking for a ride ;-)

Eg: many Amish in the US came from Canada (south west Ontario) when Canada imposed refrigeration requirements on dairy production. When the corresponding US states imposed refrigeration, some Amish moved either to states that didn't require it, or to Mexico. Others adapted and stayed where they are. Most Amish, for example, refuse to have a telephone. But as an example of "modern compromise", some will have an outdoor phone for calls pertaining to their dairy operation.

My wife and her sister bed-and-breakfasted with Pennsylvania Amish farm families, and recounted the amusing incident where the Amish family's teenage daughter had to stand outside in the rain at the "dairy phone" to talk to one of her friends.

I thought of bicycle generators (car-size alternators or generators will sometimes present too much load to the available horse power ;-) too.

However, I don't think they'd be terribly effective long-term solutions. They'd always be diddling with them. Something simple and mostly maintenance free is better.

Perhaps LED lights and a smallish solar panel. Should allow them to use smaller/cheaper batteries too.

[Bob F]

Remember those bicycle lights that have a generator that rubs on the tire to light the light? They might be AC output, so you'd need some diodes to charge batteries, but they could be a good starting point. Add a "tire" to the generator if the buggy wheels are not rubber. Obviously, the output current is limited, so you either need small bulbs or multiple generators.

Bob

[beecrofter]

Sounds like a good community to have a way station with a few solar panels and a few group owned batteries on charge, swap out your discharged battery for a charged one along the way. Wouldn't need to be any bigger than an outhouse.

[hallerb]

I think LED lights are the way to go! Way less complex than a generator, very low power use, life near forever, no extra drag for horses to pull. simple straighforward change.

even if you have a generator you will still need a battery for non motion times.

LED should cost less too.

just go look at some current LED lanterns, WOW was my first thought.

If you REALLY want a generator get a small hand crank one the amish kids can wind to keep the battery charged!

[Oren]

One page PDF file for Amish Buggy LED lights - lumileds.com.

[Steve Barker]

if they're going to bend the rules enough to put an alternator on the buggy, THEY'd be better off buying some suitably sized solar panels to charge those batteries during the day when not in use. I'm afraid by the time you geared the alternator up with pulleys or gears, you'd have quite the drag on that wheel. A typical GM self exciting alternator needs to spin about 2000 rpm to get anything useful done.

steve

[Chris Lewis]

According to beecrofter :

Amish communitees are very well spread out. They're not towns, they're farming regions with a mixture of Amish and non-Amish farmers. In many cases the non-Amish outnumber the Amish by a substantial margin.

In order to be useful, "way stations" would have to be impractically numerous ;-)

[Cshenk]

wrote

Ineresting! What comes t my mind is the old bicycle lights. You know, the ones that run off the spokes hitting the wheels? They generaly stop when you stop, but might that be somesort of lead? I've seen ones for sale that charge a small accessory battery so it runs for a bit when stopped.

I'e also seen solar powered bicycle lights, charge during the day stuff. I didnt have much luck with the one I got, but then I only had a west/south facing window to charge it in ad seldom got 'direct sun'. They don't give alot of light, but several of them might do the trick as well as fit the lifestye?