Code Question

[Chip C]

In fact, I believe this would not be permitted, because the two outlets are adjacent.

I've put two duplex outlets in a double box in a kitchen; one duplex was ckt#1 and 2, coming from one 14/3, and the other was ckt#3 and 4, on another 14/3. But 3 and 4 also (as allowed) fed another split recep elsewhere in the kitchen, the catch being that it was not "adjacent" to this one. This is permitted.

Each 14/3 went to a pair of linked breakers but the 2-gang box did not have a partition. Perhaps it should've? The inspector didn't ask; in fact he barely stuck his head in long enough to count the outlets.

However, as of maybe a year ago, it is now an approved option to use non-split 20A outlets (the kind with the T-shaped neutral) on #12 wire and 20A breakers, as has been done in the U.S. for a while.

As with the splits, a 20A outlet can feed another one that's not "adjacent".

Now, is there such a thing as a 20A kitchen appliance on the market in the US or Canada? Maybe a fast-boil kettle or a heavy duty mixer?

Chip C Toronto

[HA HA Budys Here]

I dunno maybe there's something in Canadian code I'm not "getting" here - are you saying it's OK to use #14 awg. wire with 15a circuits for kitchen countertop outlets???

And why use a "barrier" between 2 duplexes? On each duplex you've got opposing legs from the single-phase service... You have a 220v potential in each side of a barrier just like you'd have 220v potential difference within each compartment.

[Chris Lewis]

According to HA HA Budys Here :

I've never seen a kitchen appliance (other than permanent wire) in Canada that would need a 20A circuit.

Americans don't "do" electric kettles. Most electric kettles you find in the US are gifts from Canadians ;-)

High power electric kettles is a British thing (eg: 20A at 240V). Man those things boil water fast! ;-)

Absolutely. Canadians do their counter top outlets with split duplex 15A receptacles - 30A at 120V available at each outlet. Americans (usually) do their counter top outlets with unsplit 20A receptacles - 20A at 120V available at each outlet.

20A 120V circuits with receptacles are virtually unknown here. Partially because, until recently, those 15A/20A receptacles you use down there were illegal here, and a 15A plug doesn't fit into a 20A outlet. Hence, ordinary outlets and lighting are always 15A, not 20A, and 14ga is far more common.

There are times where I'd blow an American style 20A counter outlet, but not ours. For example, running the 1200W toaster and electric kettle (1500W) off the same outlet...

Ah, but you forget, those duplex receptacles were fed from _two_ dual breaker circuits. A total of four circuits feeding one box. CEC rules are stricter about multiple "untied" circuits going to a box. For strict legality, either those four breakers needed to be tied together, OR, there be a metal barrier between the two outlets.

[Chip C]

I knew this, actually; I tried to buy a kettle in a Wal-Mart in California and they didn't know what I was talking about. Heck, Canadian Tire has a whole aisle full of them.

But still, is no manufacturer taking advantage of the 20A kitchen circuits with a big microwave, or dough mixer, or 50-slot toaster, or whole turkey fryer, or anything?

things boil water fast! ;-)

I've heard of those, if I get to the UK one of these years maybe I'll smuggle one back and rig it up.

I knew a fellow who got an Italian espresso machine to work using two

120V plugs on different phases. I think I'd prefer to put in a 240V outlet and re-wire the cord...I wonder if that would violate code? If you counted it as a "dedicated appliance" circuit that just happened to be over a kitchen counter, would an inspector pass it?

Chip C Toronto

[John Hines]

The electric frying pan went out of favor with the introduction of the slow cooker.

[Chris Lewis]

Like I said, Americans don't "do" electric kettles, most of them haven't a clue what an electric kettle _is_ ;-)

It ain't a frying pan... ;-)

[Chris Lewis]

According to Chip C :

Appliances suitable for _residential_ kitchens don't need anywhere near that much power. How many people do you know could make use of a 50 slot toaster in their home kitchen? ;-)

Dough mixers are only a few hundred watts. The biggest one you'd expect to see in a kitchen (ie: a restaurant-size Hobart) I think is still under

1500W.

A UK-style electric kettle is the only portable appliance I could think of that would be reasonable to expect in a residential kitchen that needs more than about 1500W.

Electric grills maybe. You direct wire the bigger ones (ie: Jennair cooktops).

I don't think you'd have the slightest problem with a 240V outlet on a kitchen counter, especially a single receptacle device for something specific. In the US, it'd have to be GFCI'd (expensive device), but not here.

Two plugs on different phases? They'd have heart failure.

[zxcvbob]

If I did somehow get a 2400W (or larger) electric kettle from UK, would I be able to get a NEMA 6-15 or NEMA 6-20 cord for it so I could plug it into a 220V US outlet? Or would I need to find a British style outlet? Or just replace the end of the British cord with a US plug?

Best regards, Bob

[zxcvbob]

Are you sure about that? Or would it be exempted because either (a) dedicated outlet, or (b) not 110V? My code book is not handy, and it's

10 years ago and I know they tightened up the rules since then.

Thanks, regards, Bob

[Chris Lewis]

According to zxcvbob :

Just replace the plug on the cord.

Preassembled appliance cords with something other than standard 15/20A

120V plugs on the end are pretty rare here. Unless it's 240V/30A (dryer) or 240V/50A (stove cord). A 240V/50A kettle would be quite the thing ;-)

[HA HA Budys Here]

True, but we also don't "do" tea. So let's not go there...

And you can't rush a coffeepot.

That, in inspector-ese, would be like mixing matter and anti-matter.

[Stephan Bour]

in article c0e889$16c284$ [e-mail], zxcvbob at [e-mail] wrote on 2/11/04 4:53 PM:

Are you sure you want to do that? The power supply differences between US and Europe are not only on voltage, they also use different frequencies. I don't think I would use a European appliance in my home without a transformer. But that's just me. Cheers, Stephan.

[zxcvbob]

It won't make any difference at all for a resistive load. And a transformer doesn't change the freq anyway.

Thanks, Bob

[Chris Lewis]

I'm not 100% sure, but the "all counter outlets must be GFCI'd" rule the NEC now enforces probably overrides the dedicated/non-120V rule. Especially if it's close to the sink.

Unless you can get an inspector to rule otherwise, I'd assume all US countertop outlets must be GFCI'd, no matter what they are.

[Chris Lewis]

Right. The frequency difference usually only matters to inductive motors and (probably higher power) transformers.

These days, most equipment is quite frequency insensitive.

A resistive load could care less what the frequency was (within reason, 400Ghz need not apply ;-). Even DC is fine for pure resistive loads.

[HA HA Budys Here]

No. Only 125 volt outlets.

210-8. Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel

(a) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified below shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

I didn't copy the rest, but it applies only to 125 volt receptacles.

[Chris Lewis]

According to HA HA Budys Here :

Thanks for that.

[HA HA Budys Here]

I installed a 100a, 3 phase receptacle in a theater for portable dimmerpacks. They have plugs you almost need 2 people to carry. Just once, before I retire, I'd like to hang that puppy over a kitchen sink, or next to a swimming pool, just to snap a picture of the inspector's face.

[Calvin Henry-Cotnam]

Code update!

As of the 2002 revision of the code (OESC - the Ontario Electrical Safety Code, the Ontario-ized version of the CEC), as an alternative to the split outlets, a 20A non-split outlet with a T-slot configuration (to accept either a 15A or a 20A plug) can be used in kitchens here in Canada.

The same release of the OESC makes it manditory since January 1, 2003 to have all kitchen outlets within 1 metre of a sink to be GFCI protected. Since they do not make split GFCI outlets and 2-pole GFCI breakers can be pricey, you will now see 20A T-slot GFCI outlets near sinks in Canadian kitchens.

I have three such outlets in the kitchen of the house we just built. We have two outlets that are not so close to the sinks so they are 15A split.

We had to add another outlet on a small stretch of counter that the inspector said needed its own outlet, so rather than run another 14/3 line and use two more breaker positions, we just ran a 12/2 line to the nearest 20A circuit since it was one outlet on its own circuit and you are allowed up to two on the same circuit in kitchens (with an exception for wheel-chair accessible outlets).