Asbestos testing in NJ

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I wonder if anyone has done testing of sample for asbestos in NJ. How expensive is it and reliable results are? I have vinyl tile floor in my basement workshop and 40% of tiles peeled up or otherwise broke and I concern about tiles contained asbestos. So I am thinking about submitting a piece of a tile to an asbestos testing lab. Is it worth doing? If asbestos is indeed found what's the best way to address the problem? Cover entire workshop floor with modern vinyl tiles?
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Abate the asbestos professionally. You're playing with your life, and it's not a quick, pleasant death at the end. Seriously.
-S
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"Abate the asbestos professionally. You're playing with your life, and
it's not a quick, pleasant death at the end. Seriously. "
Before she starts with abatement, don;'t you think it would be a good idea to find out if she even has asbestos in the tiles, which was the question she was asking? And if she does have asbestos in floor tiles, they generally don't present a health hazard unless you start smashing them up. Simplest solution would be to cover them up with a new layer of flooring.
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An asbestos abatement company can test it for her. If they come out and take a sample to their lab, and it isn't asbestos, then she has documented proof. If it is, and she covers it up, and goes to sell the place, she'll have to disclose it to a buyer, and they will most likely want it removed. If it's asbestos, she should not cover it up.

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"An asbestos abatement company can test it for her. "
I'd much rather send a sample myself to a lab that has no vested interest in abatement. That is the legitimate question she was asking. It's certainly not unheard of for companies to find problems to fix that don't exist. That is the legitimate question she was asking.
"If they come out and take a sample to their lab, and it isn't asbestos, then she has documented proof. If it is, and she covers it up, and goes to sell the place, she'll have to disclose it to a buyer, and they will most likely want it removed. If it's asbestos, she should not cover it up. "
Do you know what asbestos abatement companies do in many cases? They don't necessarily remove asbestos. In many cases they simply encapsulate asbestos that is there so that it can't come loose and enter the air. Covering an existing floor does exactly that. And if she does that, it's not clear to me that she needs to disclose anything to a future buyer.
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Before you spread dire predictions of death and doom, do some research and find out what asbestos can and cannot do, how it can be easily and safely abated.
Asbestos in the tile is encapsulated and not a harm at all to anyone handling it. It is only a potential hazard if it is made friable and you breath it in. Removing the tiles in a proper manner is perfectly safe and contact is not a problem at all. It is perfectly safe and legal to remove and dispose of the tiles in a landfill. IIRC, they should be wrapped in a plastic bag, but no other special precautions are needed.
If the tiles are solid, just go over them with another type of flooring. If loose, remove them first following the proper guidelines. Ed
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My best friend has asbestos cancer. He was a school teacher and walked on asbestos tile for 30 years.

If
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7. Bob Jan 13, 11:50 am
"My best friend has asbestos cancer. He was a school teacher and walked on asbestos tile for 30 years. "
That doesn't prove that it was caused by floor tile. He may have had other exposure that he was not even aware of. The best medical and scientific advice based on not one case, but studies of millions of health records, is if the tile is intact, it's not a problem.
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On 13 Jan 2006 08:55:36 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

My impression is that Bob is FOS, anyway. What the hell does he mean by "asbestos cancer" anyway?
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9. Goedjn Jan 13, 1:02 pm
"What the hell does he mean by "asbestos cancer" anyway? "
Most likely, mesothelioma, which is a type of lung cancer caused by asbestos. Now here's a funny side story. Here in NJ, some shyster law firm was running ads on TV looking for clients that had mesothelioma and wanted to sue. They ran these commercials for more than a year and I laughed everytime I saw it. The commercial said "Mesothelioma, a malignant form of cancer......"
Just shows how stupid some lawyers can be. All cancer, by definition is malignant. Now would you want these morons representing you?
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote in

In NC,many many law firms run these ads on TV constantly. No sooner than you hear some news about some medical thing, they jump on it trying to round up people.
One that comes to mind is some empty container at a hospital got reused for some liquid used on patients. Something like that. In a matter of days Dewey, Cheatham & How had an ad out that if you were in the place that day/period you NEED to call them to get what you DESERVE.
What you saw once in NJ is regular daily ad programming here.
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But what was the cause? It may have been from some other source. He may have been exposed to insulation being removed as a child, it could have been many other things over the past 30+ years. Walking on tile does not cause cancer, but breathing it in does. Old building were loaded with asbestos on ceiling, heating pipes, etc. More information needed, but in any case, I wish him the best dealing with it.
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Bob wrote:

I had a friend that had a rode a motorcycle for many years and he died.
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Edwin is completely correct.
In New Jersey, an entire Subchapter of the Uniform Construction Code is dedicated to Asbestos removal (Subchapter 8). It only deals with the type of Asbestos that can harm you, that which is called "friable" and capable of being airborne and inhaled. This is normally found as a soft substance surrounding steam pipes and the like.
Asbestos floor tiles are completely safe and inert (as are most forms of Asbestos).
However, if you do have an Asbestos project to do in New Jersey, dig deep, it's very expensive and controlled.
Dennis

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IF you have to go the abatement route - a bunch of guys come in, garb up in tyvek suits, build all sorts of barriers and go through all kinds of shenanigans to get the stuff out - necessary?
What it will do is drain your wallet. If you have an "abatement service" test for asbestos and they find any at all, they will make certain you have to remove the stuff at a great cost.
Years ago had an old house with a gravity furnace that was swaddled in asbestos lagging - every pipe and all way around the furnace. After heating season was over - started taking it down - hauled it to the landfill encased in large bags. Broke the furnace into small pieces and did the same - hosed the place down and scrubbed it - put in a new furnace myself. It is still going just fine. If the tile bug you - just take them up with a tile removal tool - looks like a flattened hoe - if they are really stuck down - rent a machine that prys up the tiles - did a big store where they used way too much mastic - goes fast. Doubt if there are any real risks doing it yourself - good luck
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Shiva the Destroyer wrote:

Horseshit. Nobody, but nobody, has ever gotten sick from a commercial asbestos product. Not brake shoes, not insulation, certainly not floor tile. The hazard associated with asbestos is in MINING it. Over many years.
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I tend to agree up to a point. Asbestos insulation does pose a risk as it is so friable when disturbed. The fibers are so fine that they can be inhaled and are listed as a cancer-causing product. The other sources of asbestos are really not a risk at all and of course that's why they are NOT listed as needing a permit to remove. (Only the friable types of asbestos are dangerous.)
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Dennis wrote:

It doesn't pose a risk unless you disturb it and inhale it for 20 years or so.

So is silica so you better not go outside.

Almost every substance that is a hazard is safe at some level of exposure. Almost every substance that is safe is a hazard at some level of exposure. The reality is that asbestos was really only a hazard to those who had extreme and long-term exposure to it, mainly folks that mined it, sprayed it inside ships or used it to manfacture parts like brake shoes, however, I believe even the evidence on the latter is pretty weak.
Matt
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May 2005 MILLER A Mesothelioma in household members of asbestos-exposed workers: 32 United States cases since 1990. American Journal of Industrial Med 2005;47:458-62. PubMed
1: Lemen RA. Chrysotile asbestos as a cause of mesothelioma: application of the Hill causation model. Int J Occup Environ Health. 2004 Apr-Jun;10(2):233-9. Review. PMID: 15281385 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Chrysotile comprises over 95% of the asbestos used today. Some have contended that the majority of asbestos-related diseases have resulted from exposures to the amphiboles. In fact, chrysotile is being touted as the form of asbestos which can be used safely. Causation is a controversial issue for the epidemiologist. How much proof is needed before causation can be established? This paper examines one proposed model for establishing causation as presented by Sir Austin Bradford Hill in 1965. Many policymakers have relied upon this model in forming public health policy as well as deciding litigation issues. Chrysotile asbestos meets Hill's nine proposed criteria, establishing chrysotile asbestos as a cause of mesothelioma.
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For an articulate viewpoint opposing an asbestos ban, http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/164/4/491 states that amphibole is indeed much worse than chrysotile:
snip:
What risks are associated with chrysotile fibres? The Collegium claims that all asbestos fibres are associated with similar risks of lung cancer and asbestosis, and only marginally different risks of mesothelioma. Experienced scientists in the field strongly disagree with this view.5,6,7,8 Risk assessments and reviews generally attribute peritoneal mesotheliomas exclusively to amphibole fibres. The 47 cohorts of individuals working with asbestos reviewed in the most recent and comprehensive risk assessments9,10 show higher risks in those working with amphibole than in those working with chrysotile. Thus, excess lung cancers occur 3 times, pleural mesothelioma 12 times and peritoneal mesotheliomas 30 times more frequently in mainly amphibole than in chrysotile industries for an equal number of expected cases (see additional data in the Table on the CMAJ Web site at www.cma.ca/cmaj/vol-164/issue-4.htm). Exposure-response comparisons of studies with meaningful exposure data suggest that chrysotile workers were 4-24 times less at risk of asbestos-induced lung cancer than amphibole workers at equal exposure.11,12 To put this in perspective, based on the exposure-response estimate of the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the lifetime risk of an asbestos-induced lung cancer in smoking male workers exposed for 20 years to 20 fibres per millilitre of air in primarily chrysotile industries was about 2%-10%, compared with 40% in smoking male workers in industries using amphiboles. Risk in nonsmoking asbestos workers was about 15 times lower in both cases. The mining and milling industry is most informative because fibre types are not mixed, and because it produces fibres of different sizes for all the asbestos industries. Of all the pleural mesotheliomas reported among chrysotile workers, 70% occurred among Quebec miners and millers, and most were traced to coexposures to amphiboles.13 The dose-specific risks of asbestosis,14,15 lung cancer and mesothelioma are 15-50 times lower in chrysotile miners than in amphibole miners.14,15 This seems true also for nonoccupationally exposed populations.16,17,18 In contrast to the Collegium's interpretation of our research, my colleagues and I found that the absence of excess lung cancers among residents of chrysotile mining towns implies a risk at least 15 times smaller than that predicted with the EPA model,17 and the number of mesotheliomas observed is at least 20 times smaller than that predicted by the EPA model.19
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2: Lemen RA. Asbestos in brakes: exposure and risk of disease. Am J Ind Med. 2004 Mar;45(3):229-37. Review. PMID: 14991849 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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However 48 year old Canadian MP Chuck Strahl never smoked, has mesothelioma most likely from working on chrysotile-containing brake shoes.
snip from article below:
"Just after the House broke for the summer, Mr. Strahl, 48, said he started to feel ill. Then his lung collapsed. "I thought it was just the flu or perhaps pneumonia, and I was too busy and too stubborn to rush into the doctor's office," he wrote.
After two weeks of tests and surgery and another collapsed lung, "Pathologists had determined that the lining (the pleura) had developed cancer, likely because of an exposure to asbestos when I was a young man. My logging days included a time when we used open, asbestos brakes on the yarder and while my exposure wasn't that lengthy, it was intense. Typically, 20-25 years later, the asbestos works its ugly magic. Unfortunately, I'm right on time."
The Hill Times, August 29th, 2005 LEGISLATIVE PROCESS By Bea Vongdouangchanh Support for asbestos makes Canada an 'international pariah' Tory MP Chuck Strahl's stunning announcement that he has cancer should be a wakeup call for the government to support a global ban on asbestos, says NDP's Pat Martin. Canada is an "international pariah" when it comes to supporting and dumping asbestos around the world, said NDP MP Pat Martin, who's calling for a global ban on the production, sale and use of asbestos, adding that the recent announcement of House Deputy Speaker and Conservative MP Chuck Strahl that he's battling a form of cancer most likely caused by asbestos exposure should be a wake up call for the government to start moving on the issue.
"Chuck's situation illustrates that this terrible, toxic substance is all around us and the government has its head in the sand for the sake of a few jobs in Quebec," said Mr. Martin (Winnipeg Centre, Man.). "They refuse to acknowledge that there's no safe level of exposure. It reaffirms my commitment that asbestos in all its forms should be banned."
Mr. Martin told The Hill Times that one of the main reasons he became an MP is "to fight for the global ban of asbestos." As a young man, he had worked in an asbestos mine in the Yukon from 1974-1975 and said he was lied to about asbestos hazards. "For the tragedy of asbestos to strike so close to us all on Parliament Hill, it strengthens my resolve that this is Canada's greatest shame and is crying out to be addressed."
Mr. Strahl (Chilliwack-Fraser Canyon, B.C.) announced last week in a column in the Chilliwack Times, a local paper in his riding, that he is suffering from lung cancer likely caused by exposure to asbestos when he worked as a logger years ago.
Mr. Strahl said he plans to continue his MP and deputy Speaker duties. "This column is about me (always a difficult subject), and it is about my cancer," he wrote. "I don't see any other way around this. I'm a kind of private guy in many ways, and I like to be pretty stoic about problems I face day to day. But my job is so public and expectations so obvious that it can't really be a secret. And perhaps it wouldn't be fair to be secret anyway, because there are so many people who need to know and want to help out in ways small and large."
Just after the House broke for the summer, Mr. Strahl, 48, said he started to feel ill. Then his lung collapsed. "I thought it was just the flu or perhaps pneumonia, and I was too busy and too stubborn to rush into the doctor's office," he wrote.
After two weeks of tests and surgery and another collapsed lung, "Pathologists had determined that the lining (the pleura) had developed cancer, likely because of an exposure to asbestos when I was a young man. My logging days included a time when we used open, asbestos brakes on the yarder and while my exposure wasn't that lengthy, it was intense. Typically, 20-25 years later, the asbestos works its ugly magic. Unfortunately, I'm right on time.
"A column like this could have the word 'unfortunately' sprinkled throughout, and it is the perfect word for the situation. Unfortunately, I was exposed to asbestos. Unfortunately, my body couldn't handle it. Unfortunately, it targets the lungs. Unfortunately, there is no cure, only treatment. Unfortunately, like all cancer, the disease has an awful, debilitating effect on your family and friends, all of whom want to help, can't believe it is happening, and just wish they could do something to make the world 'right' again.
"I'm none too thrilled with it all either. The treatment will be determined in the next few days, and I'll have to start that soon. It won't be any fun, but it has to be done and I'll just get at it when they're ready. I'm hoping to be able to keep working while this happens. I'll be in there sluggin' for now, and much of what comes up will be simply business as usual."
Conservative House Leader Jay Hill told The Hill Times last week that he was "struggling a lot" with the news of Mr. Strahl's cancer.
"He's my closest personal friend," said Mr. Hill (Prince George-Peace River, B.C.). "The friendship that we've developed over the last decade as Parliamentarians has morphed into a very close personal relationship. It goes unsaid that myself and our entire caucus give our utmost support and encouragement during this difficult time. He's loved by all and respected by MPs. The respect they have for him as Deptuy Speaker is reflective of the respect they have for him as an individual."
Mr. Martin said he was shocked when he heard the news. "We wish Chuck the best. He's such a healthy and vibrant man and if anyone can beat it, it's him."
He told The Hill Times that he is also worried about his own health and regularly goes for bronchoscopies which show there is scarring around his lungs but there is no sign of cancer.
Earlier this year, Mr. Martin was in Washington, D.C. for the first World Asbestos Awareness Day with a U.S. lobby group. "It was on April 1, April Fool's day, unfortunately, which is an irony because we've all been fooled by asbestos for so long," he said, adding that the government refuses to acknowledge that there is no safe level of exposure to asbestos.
Health Canada's website states that "asbestos poses health risks only when fibres are present in the air that people breathe. If asbestos fibres are enclosed or tightly bound in a product, for example in asbestos siding or asbestos floor tiles, there are no significant health risks.
"When inhaled in significant quantities, asbestos fibres can cause asbestosis (a scarring of the lungs which makes breathing difficult), mesothelioma (a rare cancer of the lining of the chest or abdominal cavity) and lung cancer. The link between exposure to asbestos and other types of cancers is less clear."

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Plenty of bricklayers, insulaters and drywall guys have died from asbestos and many more are suffering. The manufacturers and insurance company conspired to hide the danger since the 1930s. Don't play with asbestos.
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