Any kits to retrofit a fawcet to electronic touch control?


Delta has a kitchen fawcet that you can control manually but it will also toggle on and off by touching the metal part of the fawcet spout or neck.
I'm wondering if it's possible to buy the electronics and the valve that performs the touch-control separately (either from Delta or maybe someone else makes such a kit) so that I can adapt it for operation on another type of kitchen fawcet.
I know there are many motion-sensing fawcets, but I'm not interested in that sort of control mechanism for a kitchen fawcet.
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I would suggest going to Delta's website & see what the control module looks like.
I'm guessing that is it somewhat proprietary and not easily amenable to pirating it over to another faucet. But if you;re handy near anything is possible.
cheers Bob
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DD_BobK wrote:

A patent was filed by a couple of guys in 2004 for this touch-control mechanism. Such a simple idea - I'm surprised it was filed so recently.
The patent was assigned to Masco, which owns the Delta, Peerless and Brizo brands. This touch-control mechanism was introduced by Delta in it's "Pilar" model kitchen faucet almost a year ago (no other models have it). Brizo also has one model with the touch control. No Peerless models have it (as you'd expect).
When I look at the parts and installation diagrams, other than perhaps having difficulty with the hose fittings to/from the control unit, it seems quite possible to use the control module with another faucet. The trick would be to insure that the faucet spout was electrically insulated from counter-top or sink (assuming one or both are metallic).
Alternatively, given a metallic sink (above-counter mounted) on a non-metallic counter, it should be possible to connect the sense-wire to both the spout and the sink. That would mean that controlling the water flow could be done by just touching anywhere on the sink surface.
Alternatively, if there is some other insulated metal structure nearby (mounted to a wall, or the counter) then that could serve as the touch-control surface. Even a decorative item like trim installed for just that purpose.
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Have you considered a foot operated switch? Hands-free.
R
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Think of the module as being like one that turns a lamp on whenever you touch a metal part of the lamp. Only the output of the module, instead of going to the bulb in the lamp, goes to a valve in the water supply line.
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wrote:

I know how the things work, thanks. The foot operated pedals are something that can be easily retrofitted to any existing faucet and are readily available. Hands-free operation is superior for most washing operations.
R
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RicodJour wrote:

Do you mean a mechanical or electrical foot pedal?
You said that foot pedals are easily retrofitted into any existing faucet - by that I'm thinking that you mean some sort of mechanically-operated water valve requiring running new water lines to the foot pedal. If so, I wouldn't call that an easy retrofit.
If you mean an electrically-operated valve that's operated via foot pedal, where exactly would you get that?
In any case, the use of a foot pedal to turn a kitchen faucet on and off is not my idea of ergonomic, as compared to a touch-activated water valve.
I see that the Delta faucet in question is sold by HomeDepot.com as an internet-only item, for about $350.
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I was referring to a mechanical linkage like those used in hospitals and commercial kitchens. For example: http://www.metaefficient.com/bathroom-products/efficient-foot-pedal-faucet-controllers.html http://www.chicagofaucetshoppe.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=2577
But there are electrically operated ones that have the same capacitive control as the Delta Touch faucet: http://www.footfaucet.net/how_it_works.htm

If someone can swap out a faucet, they can install the pedal operated switch.

See above.

People use two hands when they wash dishes - I don't see how you can wash a pot with one hand. Your hands are often dirty when you are going to turn on the faucet, and wet when you go to turn it off. The foot pedals add another dimension in control. You can turn the faucet on and off easily and repeatedly with foot pedals, and accidentally brushing the faucet won't accidentally cause something to happen.
There are many times that you need two hands to hold something and need to turn the water on or off. I suppose that you could get used to using the back of your wrist to bump the faucet or something, but that seems awkward. The foot pedal is a more natural added control - like driving a car.

The Delta faucet requires you to turn on the faucet by hand, then the touch thing works. You still have to adjust water temperature and flow rate by hand, whereas the foot-operated pedals allow you to do that on the fly. Both units have a market, but you brought up ergonomics, and the foot-pedal operated units win...wait for it...hands down. ;)
R
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RicodJour wrote:

(examples of institutional foot pedals)
I can't see that ever working well in a household. Too many stubbed toes.

That does not show a capacitive touch control. That is an arrangement of electrical switches with control levers long enough to be operated by your toes.

I can't honestly understand why a mechanical (or even electrical) foot-operated switch would be preferred over a conveinently-positioned hand-operated touch control when it comes to turning your kitchen faucet on or off.

You should watch the video that Delta has on their website for this touch-control faucet. You don't have to use your hands. You can use your forearm, elbow, etc. My idea to extend the touch-control surface to the actual sink itself (assuming it's stainless steel) would make it trivial to activate the switch regardless what you're doing with your hands.

That wouldn't matter with a capacitive touch control.

Sort-of. It requires that you adust the temperature mix and flow rate just like an ordinary faucet, but once that's set, you can turn the water off and on repeatedly by touching the spout. You could do that with a foot pedal if you ran the water line from the mixing valves to the foot pedal and then up to the spout. Controlling the hot and cold water separately with a foot pedal isn't satisfactory in my opinion because you can't really control the mix ratio or the volume flow rate in a satisfactory way.

I highly doubt that that someone has the dexterity with their feet to be able to modulate the hot and cold pedals with enough precision to give them the desired water temperature.

Sorry, I think a touch-control is more ergonomic, certainly less expensive and faster to install, more durable and requires less maintainence.
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That is completely retarded. People lean their forearms on the edge of the sink while washing dishes. People inadverdently touch the sink when reaching for the next dish to wash. People touch the sink when they lean over it to look out the kitchen window. People touch the sink when they put dishes in after a meal (but aren't necessarily going to wash them RIGHT NOW). Now every time any of those happen, the water goes on, or off... That would get VERY annoying in short order.
Here's a very common scenario: The sink is full of dishes. The faucet is aimed at a plate on the top of the stack. Someone pulls in the driveway. You go up to the kitchen window to see who it is. You lean ahead to get a better look, placing your hands on the edge of the sink for stability. BLAMMO! The faucet comes on, and water goes EVERYWHERE!
Yeah, that's real ergonomic. Did you even think about this?

If they don't have the dexterity to do that, then they don't have the dexterity to stand.
Foot pedal controls have been used in commercial kitchens for decades. They seem to work fine there.

Touch-control faucets are a GIMMICK, nothing more. They offer nothing but a way to separate more money from your wallet. A foot pedal control offers far better ergonomics no matter how far you shove your fingers in your ears and scream LA-LA-LA-LA-LA. Unless you hand-wash dishes for a living, though, it's not worth the expense. Many homes have automatic dish washers these days, and those that don't probably can't afford a fancy $350 touch control faucet anyway.
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I can't believe the numb nuts around here.
snipped-for-privacy@rochester.rr.com wrote:

Maybe short people do. Short people who have metal-edged counter tops I guess. Look - clearly if extending the touch-active surface to the sink itself is problematic, then don't do it. That still leaves the spout and the faucet control as the touch surface.

And hospitals, prisons, nursing homes. And that's where they'll stay.

At a cost of a few hundred dollars minimum, and require additional carpentry work to install, foot pedals are more expensive. And I still say that they are more cumbersome to use. You want the water to keep flowing? Keep your foot on the pedal. You want to walk away and keep the water flowing? Sorry, can't do it.

Have you seen the prices for kitchen faucets with built-in pull-down heads? And you can get this one with touch-control for $320 at home depot?
You must own a foot-pedal store to be so passionate about this.
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People in your household run into the toe kick space often? It's just as dangerous as a foot pedal on a garbage can - which is not.

Reading is fundamental - from the bottom of that page: "For the times when you are bare foot, the Foot Faucet has Patent Pending touch sensor technology that operates the hot and cold water by just touching the pedal, no force required. The garbage disposal pedal does not have the touch sensor feature, that pedal must be pushed to get it to activate."
Notice the "bare foot", "touch sensor", and "no force required"...? I can provide information, but I can't make you read it.

This is apparent.

Right, of course...how are you going to isolate the sink so it isn't grounded when it's _full of water_! No one ever touches a sink unless they want to turn the water on or off? How does one reach in to get a utensil off of the sink bottom without triggering the water control?

Sigh. So this miracle Delta faucet is now also self-cleaning?
You have an idea, unfortunately it's faulty. I'm not arguing with you, as there's no point. You can easily prove me wrong by rigging your capacitor total sink control and patenting it. I just hope you have deep pockets and aren't thin-skinned.
R
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RicodJour wrote:

What happens when all your drain pipes are made of abs plastic? What do you think the resistance to ground is of a tub of water? And we're not exactly talking about salt water here.

If extending the touch-control surface to the sink itself doesn't work as intended, then don't do it. This particular Delta faucet doesn't work that way anyways. Only touching the spout or the control lever will turn it on or off.

I have no interest to commercialize any idea. That was never the point of this thread. I don't know why you're being such an asshole about it.
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Think about cleaning a paint roller. Doctors don't touch *anything* with their hands after they've scrubbed (other than gloves). The same theory applies to any hand-washing sink. I'd expect to see more foot controls, given the H1N1 paranoia.
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krw wrote:

Truth is that metallic surfaces tend to kill a lot of bacteria and viruses. So there's no point putting a lot of effort into selling foot pedals on the belief that you're increasing kitchen hygiene.
To compare the average kitchen sink area to that of a surgical scub sink is absurd.
Even if one of Delta's selling points for a touch-control faucet is hygiene related, I don't put any stock in it.
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Sure there is a point in selling hygiene.

Not so much. Think about chicken preparation.

You may not, but their market may. That's the whole point of marketing (I did note the H1N1 *paranoia*).
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