Homo Gay, are you a complete moron or are you just suffering from brain freeze due to your proximity to The North Pole? Young women of college age are usually Liberal Democrats and are going to toe the Politically Correct Liberal Democrat line. Sadly, P.L.L.C.F. have even infested the faculty at colleges in Alabama where the sleazebags spout nonsense that the students mistake for the truth. I imagine it's just as bad or worse at universities in Canada. O_o
TDD
I basically don't mind monitoring of 'public' activities, since it is outside your home and affects people, seems like a reasonable loss of 'privacy', especially if all that surveillance is used to ensure safety for all. But, such monitoring didn't provide much safety in Boston. Plus, the IRS, is an example, proving to everybody, that govt intrusion into your business will probably not be used for the intended purpose [in their case, to prevent tax abuse] but used rather for harrassment and control. Therefore, completely understandable why citizenry has said, NO! to all this surveillance, because it is seen as a tool to control, not make their lives any safer.
Chris Young used improper usenet message composition style by top-poasting:
We have provincially-run (not federally-run) heathcare systems where doctors and hospitals are reimbursed by a singe-payer (the provincial gov't). If you want to call that socialist - go ahead.
If you have something else in mind (other than how we pay for health care) that makes us socialist, then explain it. We also have police, fire, ambulance services that are also paid through some form of gov't taxation - but so do you.
You also have medicare and medicaid and veteran's affairs hospitals (you had them for a long time, under various administrations, republican and democrat). So that makes a good chunk of your heathcare system fall under a "socialist" paradigm.
Apparently more than you have in your country.
The logic there doesn't add up. It's like saying that just because those particular methods didn't prevent every event, those methods are not effective in keeping us safer. NSA has said that the methods that were recently disclosed did help prevent or disrupt dozens of terrorist attacks both here and in 20 other countries.
Again, this is a big overreach. The IRS has used the overwhelming majority of all the information provided to it by taxpayers over decades for the purpose intended. Just because there is one incident where it has been abused doesn't mean the whole premise, the whole thing is bad. That's like saying because two cops somewhere abused their authority, beat up a suspect, etc, that all law enforcement is not doing what it's supposed to be doing.
The ironic thing about the current situation is that so far, we only know of one person abusing the information they were privy to. And that is Townsend, who looks more and more like he's anti-American and possibly has been helping the Chinese for who knows how long. One mighty fine question in all this is how this guy got to all that stuff. My suspicion was that since he was involved in network security, he figured out how to get into parts of NSA that he had no business ever being in.
I don't know on what basis you're concluding that. For example, the beauty queen gave a total green light to what sounded like unlimited surveilance, and the audience cheered her. I've seen polls that show that a majority of Americans are OK with NSA collecting phone records. They have concerns about it, but they have not said "no" to it.
It's not too hard to see how this is a powerful tool. Say there is a raid on a terrorist house in Somalia or Pakistan. They find papers that have some phone numbers on them. They find a disposable cell phone bought God knows where. Clearly being able to then run those numbers against the phone records NSA has logged would be a powerful tool. You'd find who, if anyone in the USA called them. Then you have a place here to start looking....
NSA has said that the methods that were recently disclosed did help prevent or disrupt dozens of terrorist attacks both here and in 20 other countries.
I've seen polls that show that a majority of Americans are OK with NSA collecting phone records. They have concerns about it, but they have not said "no" to it.
And in the past few days, most of the cell phone carriers have installed "Wireless Emergency Alerts" (WEA) software on your cell phone. The FCC gave them a choice whether to deploy it or not, but even before they made that choice, it was clear that _WE_ would not.
Three types of alerts: Amber alerts, Emergency alerts, and Presidential alerts. The first two you can turn off.
Think about that:
If you don't want to save a child, you don't have to.
If you don't want to save yourself, you don't have to.
But, bu golly, if the man in Washington has something to say, you best just shut up and listen!
AT&T's words:
If you have a WEA capable device, you are automatically enrolled to receive Wireless Emergency Alerts. Based on FEMA guidelines, you may opt out of the following types of alerts:
- Alerts involving imminent threats to life or property issued by the National Weather Service or other authorized emergency management agency
- Amber Alerts (missing child alerts)
You cannot opt out of Presidential Alerts.
If you saw my other thread where I asked if someone's allowed to call me back on the caller-id number, the guy at the community organization seemed like he was about to cheer for this leaker, or at least criticize the phone call gathering, but I interupted him and gave the other pov, and he didn't try to argue.
I think we have to catch and prosecute this guy, because otherwise, others think they can get away with it too.** But Bradley Manning is worse. If BM had released only documents he read and thought shouldn't be secret ,that would be one thing, but he couldn't have read 500,000 docs, so he's publishing all this stuff he hasn't read.
**Well, in theory BM is worse but that's on the assumption the new guy just had one point to make, that the NSA was collecting phone calls. I guess in fact he's been claiming lots of other things, incuding some members of the agencies say are not true, and those I think could not possibly be true. Like his personal abitlity to tap anyone's phone. He might have put orders through to tap a phone, although I doubt it, but only after the log of all the phone calls showed something, and some lawyer appeared before a judge and got a warrant. maybe he's claiming he could take a valid warrant and change the phone number and everyone would trust him that it was a new, different, valid warrant. That sort of thing seems just as likely for the last 100 years, or at leas since the copy machine, and I think they must have ways to avoid it. In addition, he wouldn't get to listen to the taps so what would be his motive. Just to annoy someone he didn't like? There are always problems when dishonorable people have important jobs.I've wondered for years how come there have been no big attacks on the US, in the US. When I heard about the NSA program, I thought that might be one reason. Now they say it stopped 10 plots in the USA (and
40+ elsewhere) and I believe it and believe that answers the wonderment I've had for the second half of the last 12 years.micky was an utter boob by using improper usenet message composition style by unnecessarily full-quoting:
You mean like the Ft. Hood Terrorist Attack that happened in November
2009 where islamic Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan killed 13 people - an event which is officially classified as "workplace violence" ?Columbine High School massacre?
Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre?
Virginia Tech massacre?
Oklahoma City Bombing?
Boston Marathon bombing?
World Trade Center bombing in 1993?
World Trade Center demolition-by-airplane in 2001?
Look at these examples of mass-murder in the US and tell me how many of them were stopped by NSA/CIA/FBI wiretaps, intelligence or evesdropping:
And they won't give details or tell you who they've arrested in these plots, will they?
You are a buffoon for allowing your gov't to believe it has the right, obligation or authority to look for evidence of crime or criminal intent
*before* or even *if* a crime is committed.You are a moron for allowing your gov't to define certain types of crime as terrorism.
What the NSA does and the technical capabilities it has is driven by the private sector (military and other gov't contractors, IT companies, etc) and their need to secure more gov't contracts in areas outside of military weapons systems since that business has dried up after your illegal invasion of Iraq.
Even that is totally nuts. An Army private has no way to know what is or isn't going to cause serious harm to the country, to a covert operation, result in an undercover agent being discovered, tortured, killed, etc. Its easy to come up with all kinds of info that would seem harmless to someone outside CIA, NSA, etc. Yet to our enemies it could be extremely useful. Just some of the stuff that just seems embarrassing to you or I, for example. Let's say some hostile foreign govt leader called some other leader a "short dicked idiot". Manning releases it. The foreign leader realizes he only remembers saying that once and it was with only two other people in the room. Now their intelligence is going to know that either the office is bugged or that one of the two is the source. There have been many spies outed, intelligence programs compromised by exactly those kinds of small things.
I agree that I don't believe the wiretap nonsense. Problem one is that he actually said that he had the "authority" to order a wiretap on anyone's phone. Either he's mistaking "ability" for "authority" or he's a liar. Authority means that he could legitimately issue such an order. That's a joke. The other possibility is that he could have hacked his way into the system where he could do that, but I agree with your view, that would seem to be virtually impossible. I seriously doubt by issuing a few computer commands he could start listening to my phone.
He's also confirmed what a skunk he is by disclosing the new info, designed to embarrass Obama and the USA at the G8. For example he disclosed that NSA had intercepted phone calls from Medveydev, Putin, etc. Now that is EXACTLY what NSA is supposed to be doing. It's what they've been doing since WWII. And by his outing it, now the Russians know it and will change the system. Clearly this guy needs to go to jail for a very long time.
The irony is that so far the only abuse of the NSA info that we know of, has been by this skunk.
There are always problems when dishonorable
Yes, the record has been very good. Some of it is luck, like the shoe bomber, underwear bomber, Times Square guy, etc. But I agree with you that I think what the govt is doing has played a large part in avoiding another attack too.
OK, so change his word from "none" to "few". It doesn't change anything.
We're talking about Al-Qaeda, Islamic terrorists. You know, those that are part of an organized plot to kill us all. Not deranged psychos. Like all countries, we;ve had those all along. They are not likely to kill 3200 Americans or wipe out a city. Al-Qaeda, left unchecked, has done that and will do more if we allow it.
See above
See above
See above
OK, so it's very few, not zero. So, what?
Clearly he's talking about in the years since these new post 911 intelligence programs went into effect. Do try to pay attention.
See above.
They have given details on one attack, the guy travelling from Denver to blow up the nyc subway. That one attack could have killed hundreds, more than all the other post 911 incidents combined. And why would any intelligence service reveal exactly how they caught someone? Better that the next dummy falls into the same trap.
No, you're one of the village idiots from Canada with SPS, small penis syndrome. It causes you to focus on the USA, instead of Canada. The Islamic terrorists seem to suffer from the same strange fixation.
As for the govt not having the obligation or authority to look for evidence of a crime or criminal intent before they know a crime has been committed, just how dumb are you? Don't they have a COPS show or similar on TV up there? Every night you can see cops across the USA stopping persons on the street or travelling in a car because they "think" they might be up to something. Car leaves crack house, it gets pulled over. Guy is walking around neighborhood backyards at 3AM, cop goes over to ask questions. Run, and the cop chases you. Cop finds burglary tools, and guy gets arrested for having them and for fleeing. Walk down the street in nyc, fit a profile, and Bloomberg, who is a big liberal, well, his cops will stop you and start asking questions.
Then what are you:
"The Combating Terrorism Act revives two measures included in the Anti-Terr orism Act of December 2001 that lapsed in 2007 under a ?sunset clause? ?preventive detention and investigative hearings. The new law also increa ses the penalties for persons who refuse to cooperate with investigative he arings and makes it a crime to travel abroad or try to leave Canada to enga ge in terrorism."
Good grief you're dumb!
NSA has kept Americans safe since WWII. It's also helped friendly govt, like Canada. But it figures the village idiot would side with terrorists.
I once watched an interview with one of the 9 (I think) justices of the US Supreme Court that he gave after his retirement.
He said that he'd served 20-something years on that bench, and despite all of the disagreement there had been over legal minutia during that time, he never once heard any justice insult another's intelligence or raise his voice in anger at the other for lacking the necessariy intelligence to realize that he was wrong. :)
No one in here is stupid.
But we sure like to argue and insulting each other a lot.
That's all true too, and I should have incuded it. I meant that even from BM's pov, thinking he's so smart, how can he think that about stuff he never read.
I missed that he claimed authority. You'r e absolutely right.
In conspiratorial circles, where conspiracy theorists dwell... this has been common knowledge for years. Snowden, in all his altruistic notions, only formalized the snooping by putting a name on it. yay.
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