On Saturday, August 16, 2014 12:16:03 PM UTC-4, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
I recently needed to replace batteries in an old Tripp-Lite UPS (most of th
e time it isn't worth it, but this unit was an old rack mount, true online,
true sine wave unit) the Tripp-Lite "battery pack" was simply two standard
size SLAs strapped together with jumper wires and spacers. I ordered Powe
rsonic equivalents online (shopped around for best shipped price) and made
a new "pack" by using the old spacers and using packing tape to strap every
thing together. Been working fine ever since.
I also have another identical unit bought used that still has its original
batteries in it. I'm probably going to have to pre-emptively replace them
otherwise I'll get all paranoid about it, because those batteries are WELL
past their "best before" date.
On Sunday, August 17, 2014 9:32:06 AM UTC-4, N8N wrote:
the time it isn't worth it, but this unit was an old rack mount, true onlin
e, true sine wave unit) the Tripp-Lite "battery pack" was simply two standa
rd size SLAs strapped together with jumper wires and spacers. I ordered Po
wersonic equivalents online (shopped around for best shipped price) and mad
e a new "pack" by using the old spacers and using packing tape to strap eve
rything together. Been working fine ever since.
l batteries in it. I'm probably going to have to pre-emptively replace the
m otherwise I'll get all paranoid about it, because those batteries are WEL
L past their "best before" date.
Forgot to add. Based on my experiences using similar sized batteries for f
ire alarm, security, etc. back up I would stick with Powersonic or Yuasa un
less you get a screamin' deal on something else. Those two are the names t
hat keep coming up over and over again however and if it's good enough for
a 5 year life in a life safety application it is good enough for me to trus
t in my UPS.
I'd stay away from Walmart batteries. They're great to try an idea but
don't count on them.
I've gone through two, and have given up. Switched to Auto Zone's outlet
O'Reilly [same price!!!] and wow that battery has lasted!
Have a 'classic' Mercedes that requires deep discharge 500AHr rather large
battery, the tray is huge! Something's not right in the electrical and
likes to discharge the battery while sits in garage [only use this car
once every two to four weeks] While at local Walmart got a NEW battery.
They looked it up from the car model list and brought out a D cell for
$85 No way! I want something that FILLS that tray, after all, can't go
back to the garage while being out on the road and battery fails, right?
So they came out with a huge capacity battery, 750AHr, $115 and two year
Can tell good battery, engine starts on first turn over, that's a HOT
spark! Just to take extra good care of battery, while in garage,
disconnect from car's system, and place on 'trickle' charge [again from
Walmart, measured trickle at around 50 to 100mA so shouldn't hurt the
battery.] hey, I can really count on this battery now. Well within six
months, while out and the AZ heat dries out the carburator and need a lot
of extra cranking; that battery almost wouldn't start the car! almost ran
out of capacity! ok, two year warranty, I lived with it until 9 months
went by and sometimes wouldn't even start the car! Would ask passerbys for
a jump start [always carry cables] So went over to Walmart's garage, and
said battery deosn't work, need a warrantee replacement. The technician
checked the battery, it measured good, so can't replace! Say what?! Ok
look at this, turn the key, and hear clicking. Definition of battery
gone/NOT working. Sorry, can't do anything, because the battery measures
good.! AFter getting the Top General Manager involved, and arguing for
around 45 minutes, got a replacement battery, but told to NOT come back
for another warrantee replacement!!! I drove over to O'Reilly's 300 feet
away and got a huge battery for $128, which is STILL performing like the
day I purchased a year ago. I still have the 'new' Walmart battery in the
garage, you want it?
While at the counter of O'Reilly's I was openly complaining about the
batteries from Walmart and several customers chimed in with similar
stories. how AZ 'eats' the battery in less than a year from Walmart, but
the batteries from O'Reilly keep lasting even after 5 years, and come with
a non-quibble warranty.
Anyway, saw you mention Walmart as a potential UPS battery source and
thought I'd jump in and share.
Plus, watch out, they try to sell their batteries with a 'use this battery
anyplace but in an auto and it voids the warranty' warranty. That was the
disclaimer I kept getting from the manager at Walmart. By my putting the
battery on trickle charge while car stored in garage between trips VOIDED
the Walmart warranty?! Ok show me in writing that restriction, they could
not, so I won, but by narrow margin here.
I believe they come from the same manufacturers as other brands. Walmart
pressures manufacturers for low bids, which can force a reputable
manufacturer to cut corners.
Why deep discharge for a car? 750 AH sounds like a 450-pound battery.
When NiCads came out, the theory was that leaving them on a charger was
safe if the current wasn't too high. The standard was 14 hours at C/10.
They didn't last long. It turns out charging voltage causes unwanted
changes on the plates, so shorter charging times are better.
It's also true of car batteries. Instead of keeping a battery at
trickle-charge voltage 720 hours a month, newer chargers sense when a
battery is slightly discharged and switch on for a short time. Newer
chargers also use pulses. For example, if it reads an amp, it's
actually sending out 4-amp pulses 25% of the time so that 75% of the
time there's no charging voltage on the plates.
Maybe Walmart made the manufacturer cut corners, and maybe a Walmart
manager disregarded climate. A battery sold in AZ should have less acid
than one sold in AK. There may be other differences.
The 'other' battery is built into one of those utility thingies. What I
NEEDED was the ability to inflate tires quickly, easily, which is built
into this heavy portable unit. I also got it big enough to toss in the
trunk and use in case the main battery didn't start the car. Well, that
portable unit doesn't have enough umph to even turn the engine over, just
clicks. I went back and naively asked, will this start my car, oh yes!
was their answer. sigh.
Anyway the battery in it is now down to ?? won't even fill an automobile
tire in one setting! But it does fill the multitude of two wheel truck
tires and soft wheel barrow tires, so 'limps' along service wise.
arrrggg! sometimes I think Walmart wells what nobody else wants! or
seconds or counterfeits. In defense of walmart, I did like their TV prices
and quality is decently holding. AND very expensive monitor cable
purchased to replace a flimsy VGA monitor cable with a single broken wire!
is more like a truck cable! so some things seem ok.
How were you charging the 'other' battery? They self-discharge faster
in hot climates. If they aren't periodically charged fully, deposits
harden on the plates, reducing cranking amps and capacity. A full
charge takes time, and leaving it on a trickle charge for complete
charging can cause unwanted deposits.
I had a charger whose only electronic component was a rectifier. I
installed a switch to use it as a half-wave rectifier so I'd have a
trickle charger when I needed it. Still, battery life was mediocre.
Then a neighbor asked if I wanted a regulated charger he was throwing
out. I replaced the cables and, with a meter, discovered that it
charged with pulses -- something I'd never heard of.
It would be hard to tell from the ammeter when a battery is charged. I
began plugging the charger into a cheap digital watt meter. When the
wattage no longer went down much in half an hour, I figured the battery
In 2000, a neighbor got 2-year a Walmart battery for his car. In two
years, it wouldn't start his car. He put it on his steps. My car
needed a battery. Everybody said to go to Walmart. I decided I could
save a trip if his worked. For 12 years, it gave me good cranking
speed. Several times a year, when the voltage got down to 12.5, I'd put
it on the pulse charger to clean up the plates.
I'm amazed at the difference a good charger can make. The new ones even
compensate for temperature. If I were buying one, I'd get the kind that
turns on and off automatically.
Interesting. Don't know about pulses, but the charger goes from 5-10 amps
at the start drops down later to lower charge.
Can't find now of course, but there is an online complete reference to
'repairing' lead-acid batteries. He describes the chemistry, temp,
deterioriation, and even how to completely discharge and recharge to
replate the panels. VEry interesting reading. I tried using Electronic lab
equipment and actually got some extra life out of the battery, but didn't
last very long. In defense, I wasn't completely diligent in the attempt,
but was educational to try.
Where did you buy the charger, model number, you reference?
I didn't buy it. I salvaged it when a neighbor offered it to me. It's
a Sears fully automatic 8 amp charger, 608.71972.
You've got me thinking... I doubt it was designed to use "pulse
technology." I think it pulses because that's the most efficient way to
regulate voltage: not so much heat to dissipate. I guess it was dumb
luck that pulsing cleans up battery plates better. A charger designed to
use the technology would probably be even better.
I googled "pulse car battery charger." One device that popped up is not
a charger, just a pulser. You leave it hooked up between the terminals.
When you put the charger on, it generates pulses. Owners have
reported on Amazon that it really does keep batteries working better.
It makes more sense to me to buy a charger that generates pulses.
Can't say I've experienced problems with walmart batteries. I dont go there
often, but when I do, I prefer deep discharge. Got one been on charge for
two years off solar. Can feed 1000 watt sine inverter. Far cheaper than
kmart or sears, by 40%
I have had good luck with both Panasonic and Power-Sonic sealed lead-
acid batteries, and bad luck with everything else I've tried, including
BB Battery, UB, CSB, and Power Patrol. All the Power-Sonics I bought
before 2013 were made in Mexico, but the ones I bought in 2013 were made
in China. I put them in my old APC UPS (circa 2000) but their longevity
remains to be seen. I'd be inclined to trust a Yuasa, based on
experience with their flooded batteries, but I have no experience with
their sealed lead-acid batteries. I get about five or six years from
these batteries in a computer UPS, where the utility power is pretty
reliable. I have mostly used the "7 Ah" size (which, these days, is
often labeled 7.2 or 7.5 Ah).
I usually order them online from Digi-Key or Mouser. I checked Amazon
and a few sellers there are showing *pictures* of a Power-Sonic battery
but probably *shipping* some junk battery. Caveat emptor.
Note that the "7 Ah" size can come with 3/16" wide or 1/4" wide tab
terminals; make sure you get the right one. Also, I worked on an APC
1U rack-mount UPS that specified batteries with a flame-resistant
casing; this was only easy to find in Panasonic's line. (They are in
the Power-Sonic catalog but I couldn't figure out how to buy them in
I'm pretty sure CSB is "China Storage Battery".
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