AC units--brand or warranty?

My neighbor had an AC repairman over to recharge the house system. He has a leak somewhere that will have to eventually be fixed. He will probably also need a new system soon.
I was talking to the repairman and asked him about AC brands. He told me not to get too hung up on name brands and to pay more attention to the warranties. The brands that he sells are RUUD and Frigidaire. According to him Frigidaire has the best warranty in the business. I can't remember exactly what he said it was, but his point was warranty is the main thing. Yes, I know he is trying to sell something to the neighbor eventually. I'm wondering if he gets the best markup on the Frigidaires.
What is the opinion of people here?
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Neither.
Find a good honest contractor. Pick what he is offering. He will not offer junk, and the quality of the install is far more important than anything else.
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Joseph E. Meehan

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Well you asked for it so let me be the first,
It's the installer not the brand that makes the difference...the Lennox dealer says his are the best, Trane guy says the same and on and on. You will find the Big 3 have very competitive pricing, As one very helpful poster will tell you(CBhvac) they are all junk if they are not correctly and properly installed, although the installer next door did him a favor charging his leaky unit, he violated the law. Not sure he'd be my choice since he's willing to do so, will he be breaking the law of electrical codes next? Will he cut more corners? If you research the net you will find that there are about 4 parent company's that manufacturer the majority of units, warranty length is included in the price so and you can buy up your warranty if you choose with any reputable dealer...good luck, Ruud is the contractor edition of Rheem, exact same units part for part, price difference is in the warranty, Ruud has less than Rheem and costs less...get the picture!

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Dano wrote:

Been in the business for 43 years and sorry but that is JUST NOT TRUE, there is NO SUCH LAW that says you can't charge a leaky A/C unit. Shame on you for posting things that you don't know are factual. (some folks might think you know what you're talking about.) He really should have given the customer the choice of paying for the labor to locate and repair the leak though (if he didn't)
:)

I do agree though, it's not the warranty or the name brand that's most important, it's the quality and pride of the work.
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Well, I live in Southern Virginia and most people around here are considering these days to be rather hot.
I didn't intend for this post to become an opportunity for others to start flaming each other. I merely asked for people's opinion of the situation. Perhaps we could all kiss and make up now.
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KISS KISS :* )
badgolferman wrote:

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Because some people think it is harmful. It has not been conclusively proven yet. Ed
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Ok...fine..whatever..see below..but do yourself a favor, and stop the spin...I call them as I see them, and there was NO need in your attack, and yes, it was.

No kidding...just commenting on your own words..

You are sure worked up about nothing then....

Actually.....umm....no. The things that bother me, are simple....idiots that want to call themselves pros, and give the trade a black eye, as you did. I dunno about you man..but I live a pretty good life. Wanna talk about what we got..fine...see below.

The only person that lost credibility, is you. I notice you chose to defer the accusations, and start new ones... If you have been around as long as I have....(before Q-Link BTW...think about it) you would know we call that a troll. BTW..thats about 4 years prior to Q-link...so what? What point does it prove? Some of us know what a Timex Sinclair or a C-64, or 64-C are? That some of us remember when 300 baud was considered rocking?

Bingo...but your post sure said alot...and in all actuallty, I could care less... I know what I do....and thats correct alot of mis-informed persons of the scams in the trade....like....charging for refrigerant when there is no scale present... Sizing equipment when no manual J, or T or D is done.. The list goes on....and on....and on....

Ahh...no...twisting and spinnin...I defended the poster that you attacked....keep those facts clear old timer. And personally, I dont worry about electrical....I have a full time electrician, and he has his own company....I never worry about it being done right....it always, EVERYTIME is done to perfection....period.

Coolness.....wonderful for you....As I recall, Service Experts in Southern CA had about 5X that and got bought out.....just keep that in mind..I do every time my customers back in Palm Springs where I have my other home, fly me back to fix the simple stuff...like, a seasonal service. I have one right now that is waiting on my daughter to have her baby (shes on the way to the NAval Hospital RIGHT now in San Diego....finally)....so that he can have me come service his home unit, and the 210 units on his apartment complex he owns...sure...its a big job..but I still have people out there...

Good for you, does that give you the right to attack a person that simply was mis-informed? Master Mechanic...thats a good one..is it anything like the 6 Gold level ASE certs I have? I keep them up to date, just so I can hang a few on the wall, ....scattered among the other certs..

Your attitude, sucked. Of course, if I posted the actual cost of equipment, in your eyes, I would too....
One of our??? trademen? Wait...you said there was no law... Now...I dont know about you, but a trademan, a real professional, will take the time to find the damn leak. He is on a call, he is there to repair a problem, NOT put a bandage on the problem...... I fire guys for less..

No..you are correct. Of course, I disagree with charging more than an extra hours labor for a leak I can find normally in minutes. I have had a couple of ICPs that took all of 10 minutes each to diagnose, and under 2 hours to replace....I wont tell you what I charge for that, as it might make a few angry...lets just say, that the ad that we run, that states: No overtime fees, No weekend rate hikes, and No Holiday rate hikes falls in line with my logic..of course, Sunday, that 4L400 belt I went out and replaced on that ThermoPride was a grand total of $50...total....service fees, and checkout and parts....*shrug*

Ever seen a residential unit that took more than 50lbs of refrigerant? I have. I have seen several, and installed quite a few. Of course, this WAS in Palm Springs, and it WAS on a few very, very large homes. We are not talking about the 5,000SF varity...

Ok...easy enough..its in the 608..its online and here is the link.. http://www.epa.gov/spdpublc/title6/608/leak.html
Now, as I stated before, its for stationary equipment over 50lbs of charge.....and there is some residential units that are like that...think about it...50lbs...aint that much really. The facts are, that you stated that there was NO law that stated that leaks had to be repaired, and there IS. Also, if you take what Enviroment Canada says, its a literal fact: i) Containment (Continued Operation of Existing Equipment and Refrigerants) Containment is defined as the act of restraining, constraining and controlling an emission. Containment should be the first priority in order to immediately stop the release of refrigerants.
Leaks are usually caused by equipment vibration, gasket deterioration, and corrosion. Preventive maintenance, recycling, and a reclamation program can allow for the continued operation of existing equipment without compromising the environment or your budget.

If you only had a clue who you were talking to..lolol...ok...I know that....

Rest snipped.
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In alt.home.repair

About like you dodging me the other day when I pointed out that there is no law requiring a non-commercial outfit to OWN recovery equipment. How come you didn't whip out the book and prove me wrong? I'll tell you why. Because you can't. Stings like a bitch doesn't it?

You are a pedantic fuck that is reaching so far your shoulder is plumb out of socket. This is hilarious. Residential units taking 50lbs, yeah right, and in Palm Springs? A desert where no dehumidification is needed?
99% of all homes needing that much cooling capacity will have multiple 4 and 5 ton units, not one giant unit. And you and I both know those take 5-10lbs max.
You are just trying to save your ass and it isn't flying bozo.
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wrote:

Not really. No one dodged shit....you want to argue a point that you made...yippie. Non certified people do not need recovery equipment...or gauges, or a jug of refrigerant...period. And, from you...LOL...stings...not even....tickles maybe.
Funny tho...how do you have an outift, AKA biz, that isnt commercial? Funny how that works...either you are are, or you are not...do you mean individual? If you did, you are correct...there is no law that states you MUST own recovery equipment....just one that states you MUST recover. Hell of a loop there isnt it?
Now...if you want to get techy...(lets) its real simple.. The EPA states, clearly, that if you are servicing equipment, or repairing equipment, you are branded a tech. As such, not only must you be certified, or work under a certified person. but you MUST have recovery equipment, and it must be certified, unless it meets the grandfather requirements. Allow me to cut, paste, and then link you.
EPA requires that persons servicing or disposing of air-conditioning and refrigeration equipment certify to the appropriate EPA Regional Office that they have acquired (built, bought, or leased) recovery or recycling equipment and that they are complying with the applicable requirements of this rule. This certification must be signed by the owner of the equipment or another responsible officer and sent to the appropriate EPA Regional Office.
EPA has established a technician certification program for persons ("technicians") who perform maintenance, service, repair, or disposal that could be reasonably expected to release refrigerants into the atmosphere. The definition of "technician" specifically includes and excludes certain activities as follows:
Included:
a.. attaching and detaching hoses and gauges to and from the appliance to measure pressure within the appliance; b.. adding refrigerant to or removing refrigerant from the appliance c.. any other activity that violates the integrity of the MVAC-like appliances, and small appliances. In addition, apprentices are exempt from certification requirements provided the apprentice is closely and continually supervised by a certified technician.
The Agency has developed four types of certification:
1.. For servicing small appliances (Type I). 2.. For servicing or disposing of high- or very high-pressure appliances, except small appliances and MVACs (Type II). 3.. For servicing or disposing of low-pressure appliances (Type III). 4.. For servicing all types of equipment (Universal). Technicians are required to pass an EPA-approved test given by an EPA-approved certifying organization to become certified under the mandatory program.
http://www.epa.gov/spdpublc/title6/608/608fact.html#reclaim

WRONG. You dont know a thing about the valley do you? Currently, as of this moment, its 103F and a RH of 27%...wow....thats low. No inversion layer this day...its 108F in Palm Desert, and 45%...HUMMMMMM....wonder why?
Never been there for more than a week huh?
You get days its so damn hazy out there, you cant see across the valley, and its NOT smog...not dust..but....humidity.....any longtime resident knows the difference... But..you know..you add in a million pools, everyone watering the lawn 5X a day.....yea...you know alot about the area. I still have a home there....getting ready to go back....of course, its not like here today....95F and 80%...couple of weeks ago however, it was over 65% humidty and over 106 there.. You also must not know much about latent heat removal..... The Coachella Valley is a strange place...5 miles in one direction, its 110F and dead air, 5 in the other, and its 87F and 60MPH gusts....2 in another direction, and its like a sauna...guess thats why in an area thats overall, pretty damn small, they have over 500 licenced HVAC guys, and all have as much as they can handle.
Most of the single wide trailers there in the retirement communities take a 4 ton and several have 5 tons....thats the ONLY way you are going to cool one, whereas here, a 14X60 takes MAX 2.5 tons....HALF that, yet, twice the RH....go figure. My home in the Cove has one 12 ton unit on it....OMG....NOT two 5 tonners and a 2...ONE unit....mother in laws got one 7 ton unit...NOT two 3.5 toners... Amazing how much she saves a month too..

You stick to the little stuff....we installed residential units that were chillers on several large homes....one on Clancy Lane IF you must know. Also, several other units, that could have been called quite easy, commercial units. You have never experenced Southern California Edision or Title 24 I take it... Umm...10lbs max huh? How about an Intertherm 5 ton 13SEER? 15 lbs, FACTORY charge...thats half a jug to you unlicenced guys...the new ones...dunno, dont deal in the crap. Just had a compressor change out in one, and the damn thing is almost to my chest....replaced one last week, recovered 16lbs, and it about didnt fit in the van, and have pics to back that one up..and they are all over.

Bullshit hackboi...you are just trying to look all big and important, and thats fine...you are a God behind your keyboard. Real world is where it matters, and since you dont exist in mine, LOL...your like a gnat...bothersome, yet, oddly intriguing.
I cant help it if you have not the experence to understand. It will come.

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Fact remains, here where this post originated CANADA, it's $25,000.00 Canadian dollars if you charge a known leaker. (that's about $18,000.00 us dollars at today's exchange rate) If Rob R comes to work here (and we know he won't..being hypothetical here) and doesn't sweat the small stuff (little leaks) he won't be in business very long. The government will own everything (through fines) and customers here don't want to call their HVAC tech every year for a recharge, so don't count on repeat business...now I've opened the door for all the Canadian bashing that will probably take place..but we'll deal with that later. I see more constructive criticism from CBhvac in these news groups than I see total posts from Rob R. CBhvac was not my contractor for obvious reasons (location for those oblivious) but gave me all the insight I needed in choosing the right unit and contractor. I do worry about the small stuff when I choose people to give my hard earned cash to, I want them to do it right, the first time. Value for my dollar means more than the cheapest price! Now let's all go for a beer eh?
wrote:

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Don't know about Canada and don't really care since I'm not going there but I'll take your word for it even though I still haven't seen proof.
The Fact STILL remains that in the USA (where the OP was from) there is NO SUCH LAW that says you can not add refrigerant to a residential A/C system without repairing the leak and posting that someone broke a law is WRONG when NO SUCH LAW EXISTS # 608 DOES NOT SAY SUCH
That's it, that's the simple fact
I did NOT SAY we don't locate and repair leaks I did not say anything derogatory about CBHvac except that he calls people names to make up for the fact that he posted an incorrect statement and won't or can't act like a gentleman (on here) It's got absolutely NOTHING to do with all the other stuff that's been posted side stepping the FACT and trying to change the subject to keep from eating Crow by calling people childish names does not change it !
Bob R
l
Dano wrote:

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Id like to see an answer to !
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Reminds me of when I was in high school, I bought a Sears lawnmower with a Briggs & Stratton engine. It had a 90 day warranty. My neighbor, who was an accountant, bought the same lawnmower, but with a newly designed Sears engine. It was guaranteed a year, and that is why he chose it. You know the end of the story. His died in 13 months. I cut grass all over the neighborhood and mine was still operable when I left home years later. We have a Sony portable color TV that had a 1 year warranty I think. It is alive and well at age 24. Warranty length is not a reliable guide to quality in any product. It can be some indication of how much help you will get if failures occur during the warranty, but read the fine print and see if it really matters. A Hyundai has a 10 year warranty. Wonder why everyone is not driving one..
badgolferman wrote:

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LOL....no.
You worry about the install. Warranties are about pointless now. Really. A good install, and chances are, you wont ever need the warranty for the life of the unit.

Based on what? Crappy old Goodman/Janitrol has a lifetime warranty that is out there....ok..its crap units, its normally sold by the worst in the biz, and you WILL need it, but...based on WHAT?

Warranty is the last thing I even worry about when talking to a customer. It is there IF they need it. Like any major appliance, extended warranty is there if they want it... Name on the unit...means little in the big picture...the installation quality, the prep work done to insure correct sizing of equipment, and any duct modifications or additions need to be calculated CORRECTLY and installed right...that means more than any piece of paper with a warranty on it, or a name on a unit.

Who knows? Each distributor has about 5 different prices on the same equipment , to each dealer. It depends on who you pissed off at the supply house, how many a year you sell, what your waranty returns look like...etc..

Keep shopping.

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