A/C outside fan not running

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This is Turtle.
wait for the sales and they sell them for $1.99 .
TURTLE
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In alt.home.repair

Many humans are notoriously dirty but the percentage definitely increases as you get into the AC repairmen, auto mechanics, lawyers and car salesmen. This isn't to say there aren't dirty people in any field but we aren't discussing those fields right now. The poster was asking an AC question.

And yet you felt compelled to respond. Why was that?
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wrote:

If this is the best defense you have of your pitiful attempt to degrade a trade, it deserves no response.

My response was to the homeowner, not you. Your dribble is inaccurate and dangerous at best.
- Robert
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American Mechanical writes:

The trade is fine. It's the tradesmen that are the problem.
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Sorry to hear you feel that way Richard. The trade is made up of the tradesmen, Bruce agreed that humans in general were the problem.
- Robert
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wrote:

Ahh...this is interesting. Most AC repairmen, thats MOST, have a clue. The ones that dont are the ones that you hear about, and those are the ones that need to be removed from the trade, altho, perhaps up to 60% of the bullshit artists could be improved IF the person would simply learn a bit more. We hire and fire many over the course of a year, simply because they have learned bad traits and are either unwilling, or unable to relearn the correct way to do things. Owners, and working owners like myself, tend to give a damn about the customer...while the tech that is sent out is NORMALLY underpaid, overworked and is only there to collect a check and try to gain his 4 to 8 years of field experence to go solo.
Its a compound problem...the companies that have the biggest bunch of hacks tend to underpay their workers, the customers do not want to pay $200 an hour for idiots, the company cant afford to keep training and retraining the techs...the customers suffer...the company does not...of course...its kinda like that with a bunch of guys that sit around in an conditioned office...sitting on their ass, waiting for 5pm....funny how tho, when that AC quits, and its 105F out, they will be all over the phone calling those same companies that they want to slam in here. 5pm?? LOL..thats nothing but a lunch hour for a few of the better companies...try getting up at 4am, getting on the road by 6am, and if you are fortunate, you are finishing your last call of the day about 11pm....welcome to the life of a working owner, who pays his guys above average wages (up to 40 an hour) and understands that we are considered dirt...till your unit quits..

Perhaps the same reason you took the time to try to impress us and tell the world that you think you can make more money sitting behind a desk...and, you can.. Most TECHS are underpaid. As a company owner, I am as well...owning a small HVAC company was listed on 20-20 as the #5 way to become a millionare in under 5 years....and of course, thats if you follow the paths given out by the hack companies...you know..charge, charge and charge some more.
Your statement was blanket, and wrong. Lord knows I could make more money if I actually charged for all we do....:)..but then, you also need to realize, that tech that comes to your home from the huge company across town, probably could care less if he has a job in the morning, and THAT is what the help we are getting is looking like more and more. Someone once blasted me in here for the way I test my guys...yet, I test them in a manner that would be in the homeowners interest...funny how the doublestandard applies in here...

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I agree, but one must admit that if managed properly the HVAC company can make a decent profit margin and provide quality services. I don't understand why everyone has to think that this trade is the only thing one does. Do none of them invest any money in other ventures or markets?
- Robert
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A friend of mine had that problem. He went outside and picked up a little stick from the yard and put it through the grill and just moved the fan inside.....the fan started. Am sure this is not your problem? Just a true story. Dan.
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I replaced an entire condensing unit (that's the thing that sits outside) yesterday that had the exact same problem. The fan would start when you spun it using a stick.
I replaced the entire unit because the existing one was almost 17 years old. That unit had lived a long full life in service to that house.
Sure, the homeowner could have had me replace the motor for about $225 instead of spending $1500 plus on a new condenser, but he felt it was save him money in the long run in energy savings. I call it economies of scale.
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HeatMan writes:

I glad his feelings were helped, but his feelings are irrelevant.
The "more efficient" sales technique is increasingly a swindle. There are very few units remaining to be replaced from the dark ages of cheap electricity and dismal efficiency. These days, the "low efficiency" is often from mere lack of inexpensive maintenance.
Ask them for a concrete guarantee on your power meter if you don't believe.
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This is Turtle.
If you have a 7 seer system and you go to a 14 seer system. I will Concrete garrenty, you will get atleast a 10% cheaper cost to operate the system. Now you might get more but i want sure things.
TURTLE
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In alt.home.repair

Of course if you believe the hype, you should cut your bill in half.
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wrote:

Not quite half, but cut it down by about 1/3. Of course, you have to look at degree days and tie that into the kW consumed.
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wrote:

This is turtle.
I am in the HVAC / R business and get to see the business first hand and the effects of the seer rating in effect models. 80% of my business is commercal hvac / r work and they don't want seer but cold air coming out their vents. The other residentiual 20% of my customers are going to buy from me no matter what seer i sell them. i don't care if they buy 10 seer or 200 seer. I just tell them what the manufactor and the U.S. Government has to say as how much they will cut the electric bills and also what i have seen and heard from customers telling me about the units I have installed. For a example of a 8 Seer and a 13 seer on my own house the 8 seer was costing me during the 5 hot months total electric bill of average of $259.00 per month and when I replaced it with 13 seer system. my average 5 month electric bill was about $165.00 a month. Now here lately i changed it to a 14 seer from a 13 seer and i will say i did not see much diffence at all in my electric bill. I seem to think it got higher. I also being a little crazy and want to see what happens when you do something different. I took the 14 seer condenser off my house and put a 8 seer Rheem builders model condenser [ about 20 years old used unit ] and left the 14 seer expanion valve evaperator coil and gas furnace on it. then i looked at my electric bills and seen no change of cost to operation from the 13 seer or the 14 seer condenser running on the house than having the 20 year old 8 seer condenser doing the job. I haven't figured this one out yet.
TURTLE
Once you have seen first hand that the ratings systems may be flawed but they do have some good savings involved. You are not to quick to say over all that it is all bullshit.
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In alt.home.repair

Really all it comes down to are the amps drawn by the compressor. That is what makes the electric meter spin, no argument about it. If I compare a SEER 10 and a SEER 14, I better see the RLAs on the 14 40% lower than the 10. If I don't, you better be able to tell me that it will run 40% less or some combination of the two that adds up to a 40% reduction.
Of course, AC guys will tell you that the most efficient units run much of the time in the summer if sized properly so it gets back to RLAs. If my 4-ton 10 SEER is spec'd at 23 RLAs, the 4-ton 14 SEER better be spec'd at 13.8.
I'll bet you can't find me on that is rated that low though, even a SEER 15 or higher.
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wrote:

It all comes down to a ratio of input watts and btuh's realized. It is easiest to see as you described it, but there are many other system factors that influence the efficiency. Amperage is a measurement of the speed of flow and as such doesn't take into account LRA current drawn at startup, defrost cycles, fan motor heat, etc. as is figured in the SEER rating.
- Robert

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wrote:

LOL... How about a properly sized unit that will run up to 50% longer, but save you up to 45% on your bill? Oh..thats right...never ever heard of that....but funny thing is, they exist.

The "ac guys" sure know a bit more about it than you tho...altho, you bring up some basic misconceptions about how a SEER rating is attached to a unit.

4 ton (48,000BTU) H1RA048 York....RLA 6.1 amps.....oh....thats 10 SEER.
Of course, I like that RLA of 5.8amps on the 036....
Of course, I have yet to see a unit that actually will run at RLA all the time.....I have installed 12SEER units that are rated at over 21RLA, yet, only pulled about 8...gee...wonder if that had anything to do with the proper sizing of the ductwork, ambients, or anything like that.
If you think that amps are the only thing that makes that meter spin, you would be wrong. If you think RLA is any indication of how the feds rate SEER, then you need to learn again, since its not how it happens. Look it up and be amazed that the word watts shows up.
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In alt.home.repair

LOL! Watts = Amps * Volts dood and the volts are constant. No way to vary watts without varying the amps in that case.
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wrote:

But you notice that AMPS are not discussed at all when dealing with SEER...therefore, your arguement is pointless, and misguided.
BTW, volts in the real world are NOT a constant. You will be amazed at how often you will have 215VAC one day, and 235VAC the next..what happens then to the wattage, or amperage? :) Edison Electric of CA showed me that one...its all in how they need to fill the coffers that month...
Notice you cant make a statement on those low RLAs....figures...
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wrote:

This is Turtle.
Now look Don't complex the fellow here with them strange words like Watts. Stay with Amps and RLA things.
TURTLE
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