Bullshit. Using 14/2 in a 20A circuit is wrong. No two ways about that. It's a
violation of the NEC.
That's been explained thoroughly already: the maximum overcurrent protection
permitted by the NEC for 14-gauge copper circuit conductors is 15A. Period.
OK, fine, we'll assume you're right about that. That does not change the
facts, which are:
1) 14/2 on a 20A circuit is a violation of the NEC.
2) The NEC in some places (many, actually) carries the force of law.
3) It is therefore illegal in those places to use 14/2 on a 20A circuit.
4) Just because Louisiana allows it, does not mean it's allowable everywhere.
Hellooooooooo..... Earth to Turtle.... *YOU* are the one who made the mistake,
out of ignorance of the laws in other jurisdictions. *You* made the blanket
statement that it's not illegal, ASSuming that what was true where you live
was true everywhere else. News flash: it's not.
False. In many places, the NEC is adopted by law, in its entirety, as the
electrical code for that jurisdiction, which means that _in_that_jurisdiction_
the NEC *is* the law.
It doesn't matter what the laws are in Louisiana. All that matters is what the
laws are where the work is being done. You stated that using 14/2 on a 20A
circuit is perfectly legal. This may or may not be true, depending on where
the dwelling in question is located -- but the point is, YOU DON'T KNOW. And
therefore you shouldn't be giving advice like that when you don't know what
you're talking about.
This is Turtle.
Yes I will have to say I'm sorry for making a blanket statement on this but I
was think a little local code enforcement here in Louisiana. The point i was
making was the NEC is a code and not a law everywhere. The NEC is a code and if
a state or city wants to make it a law. they can but it will come from the state
or city laws to enforce it and there is nobody with NEC on their shirt will be
in the group enforcing it. Also your waisting you time explaining the NEC code
to me for I have to follow it to the letter for I'm ''For Hire'' and everytime i
have to run a circuit for the hvac business I have to check it out in the Ugly
Book first and then if need be the NEC. And yes a 14/2 wire on a 20 amp circuit
or breaker is a no no.
This is Turtle.
You don't read well for the word on the law were in respect to a home owner
doing the wiring and not a person for hire doing it.
Now i can't disagree with you on Louisiana being screwed up on Codes and
regulation of this nature for Louisiana's codes and regulations are about 20
years behind the other states. Let me give you one. Here in the town I live in
just about 5 years ago issued electric licences to the electricians working in
this city and before this time there was NONE. For referrence here. Oakdale ,
Louisiana 71463 and a POP. of 9K .
Also you show good promise in being a Troll. Have you tried it yet?
This is Turtle.
I don't know about giving out bad advise, but IN the state of Louisiana a ''
home own '' [ Not Public anything there ] can wire anything he wants and tell
the inspector to kiss off. Now he can't rent it, have a business there, open to
the public, or have any meeting of a group there at all or he comes under public
Now in other states you can have a code set for the Parish / County that states
something different as to what you can do. I totally agree with you if you have
these regulation. Louisiana DOESN'T HAVE IT and a home owner can do what he
wants with his house. Now we are kind of backwards in the regulation business
but Them's the gritts!
The only permitt there is in Oakdale, Louisiana 71463 on electric work there is
if any work costing more than $1,000.00 + or a complete change out of meter pan
and switch box you should get a permitt and have it inspected to see it meets
the NEC code. Other than this they have nothing else. I'm speaking about my part
of the country and not your. When you start stating regulations in your area ,
there is 10 other versions of what you say about your area that does not apply
in other places. There is no one part of the country that will have the same
regulation word for word but each will have there spin on it. Now I'm speaking
about home owner only doing work and not trademan doing work. Trademen have to
stick to the NEC to the letter.
Now if you would like to know. Your talking to a Louisiana State Electrical
contractor in the HVAC and some Electric work if I like to. As the Contractor, i
know what I can do and not do as to NEC as for hire and homeowner come under a
different set of rules in the state of Louisiana. What is not good in New York
might be good in Louisiana for Home owners that is.
If you don't catch the words Home Owner in this conversation you will not
understand anything of what I'm saying here.
This is Turtle.
There could be section of the country or citys that have a jail term for a home
owner wiring his lights in his bed room the wrong way but in the state of
Louisiana there is no jail time stated for wiring your own home wrong. He can
wire it anyway he wants it. I have never heard of or know of any home owner ever
spent a day in jail for wiring his own house like he wanted it. If you had a
jail term for screwing up your own house. Half the population of the U.S. would
be in jail. You can't tell a home owner how he is to wire his house unless he is
using a contractor or electrician to do the work.
Here is one for you. Call up the city inspector of your city and tell him that
your neighbor wired his bed room lites wrong and not to code. Then tell the
inspector to go do something about it. He will say well who was the electrician
or contractor on that job and you say the owner of the house did it. the
inspector will tell you awwwww I'll try and talk to him and get him to correct
it , but if he throws me out. I can't do anything about it. Try this for real
and see what happens.
Here is another one for you. Did you know that a home owner can work on his
freon hvac system all he wants and the E.P.A. can't say a word to him. He can be
using freon 22 to blow his drive way off and you can't charge him with nothing
at all. Now you may talk him into stop blowing the freon in the air if you can
talk him out of it. Only E.P.A. licenced professionals or companys can go to
jail for violations. Now without licence you can go to jail if your out working
on for hire jobs and he don't own the house or property. He has to be working on
somebody elses property to go to jail.
Check up on what a home owner can do and get back with me.
Now if a electrician for hire wired it wrong or not to code. They will burnt him
at the stake.
I never said anything about jail time; that's your own invention. But the fact
is that in some jurisdictions, there can be pretty heavy fines. And I assure
you that in those jurisdictions, the code enforcement authorities very
certainly *can* tell a homeowner how to wire his house; they can also tell
him he isn't allowed to touch it at all because he doesn't know what he's
Educate yourself to a new fact: what's true in your particular locality is not
necessarily true everywhere. Just because _where_you_live_ there are no legal
penalties (as far as you know) for a homeowner who violates the NEC, does
*not* mean it's that way in other places.
This is Turtle.
I toally agree with you on this but Louisiana Home Owners can do what they want.
Someday they will get around to making the NEC a regulation to follow by home
owner but for not they do as they please. We are kind of backwards here.
So what? Unless the OP lives in Louisiana, that makes no difference. In a lot
of places, homeowners can *not* do whatever they want.
And I'll bet that's not true everywhere in Louisiana, either. I don't know one
way or the other, but I'll bet that your bigger cities have adopted the NEC,
or something similar, as law, and homeowners there are legally required to
This is Turtle.
There one point here that will make Louisiana different from any other state of
the Union. Louisiana has Nepolianic Law which is left over from when it was
owned by other countrys and was bought by the U.S.A. All the other states
adopted the Common Wealth Law which is normal to most but Louisiana stuck with
Nepolianic Law which is deferrent form any other state. There was all kind of
laws passed and enforce as to homes, land , and personal property but Louisiana
still has Nepolianic Law which states that a owner of a home or where he lives
at can do what he wants with the house or land that he lives at. Now for the
city of New Orleans there is very stiff regulations of the NEC code and you
follow the letter of the NEC to the Tee. In a city like this with heavy
regulations on everything there, It still says by Nepolianic Law that a home
owner can do what he wants with his house as he pleases. The only way this
regulation will come into play is the home owner calls a craftman of some trade
to do the work. If so the state and parish regulation go into play. The Craftman
and the home owner both agreed to abide by the NEC code and regulation when this
happens. The seperating point between the Code and regulation is the hiring of
anybody to work at your home. If you hire a kid down the block to come help you.
Your hiring a '' for hire worker '' and come under the NEC and regulations.
It's hard to get by the regulations in Louisiana but it can be done.
The only way a home owner can do any electric work and not be covered by the NEC
and regulations is He himself alone does the work and has NOBODY for hire on his
land at the time of the work. There was a fellow in New Orleans that did some
electric work on his house and was reported to the city inspector. They could
say a word to him but he messed up. He installed a bunch of new circuits for a
back room and when he called a sheet rock fellow over to redo the walls that he
had messed up where he put new receptical in at. This brought in the NEC and
regulations for he had FOR HIRE people working on the job. He then had to get a
licenced Electrician to redo the mess up's and get the city permitts for the
Now here is a good one for you when you have Nepolianic law in a state. There is
a state law still on the books that states that if you sell a item to a person
and the estimated life of the item is 20 years. You will warrent it for 20
years. A example of this is If I sell a HVAC system to a home owner and the
estimated life of the HVAC system is 17 years [ State Farm states Estimated life
of a hvac system is 17 years ] I will by Nepolianic Law will have to warrant it
for 17 years. I will have to repair it, Make good on it, or Give them their
money back. I know of nobody ever using this law but it is sitting there on the
I again Totally agree with you that the NEC regulation should be followed to the
Letter but there is exceptions in different places of the country.
I did exactly the same thing. (Only in my case I was sorta innocent. I
extended a circuit that had only one 15a outlet on it, so I naturally
assumed it complied with code and was a 15a circuit. wrong...)
Anyhow, I couldn't see how they could ever use more than 15a on the circuit
and replacing the 14 would be a PITA, so I changed to a 15a breaker.
If you can't do that you will have to upgrade the wire. Sorry.
It's not right, but it's not all *that* unsafe because it is a switched
light/ceiling fan -- you don't have to worry about someone coming along
later and extending the circuit with a bunch of additional outlets.
If I were doing it, I would use #12 wire. If I found out afterwards
that I had accidently used #14 wire, I would leave it. If someone ever
questioned me on it, I would claim that it was allowed by the "10 foot
tap rule." (even if it's more than 10' to the ceiling fan, it is a lot
less than 10' from the receptacle to the switch)
All that said, how hard would it be to replace it with #12 wire?
Putting on my asbestos underwear,
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