15 vs 20 amp circuits

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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

I've never found any problem with just stripping the normal 3/4" off and using the pliers tip of the combo pliers/stripper/crimper/screw cutters to put the loop in it for hooking over the screw. It takes about a second since you already have the tool in your hand from stripping the wire. That said, as I noted in another post, I've become quite fond of the "back wire" clamp type connections found on many spec grade devices, not to be confused with the terrible "push wire" connections which should never have been approved.
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Just about all the electricians I know and work with use the hole in the side of stripper that is made for making the loop that fits on the terminal screw. Insert tip of stripped copper - fold it over the side of the cutter - install on screw. The tips of the strippers can be used to close the loop tight. <http://www.mygreenlee.com/Products/main.shtml?p_search=test&greenlee_category_id 0&Submit=Find&portalProcess_2=showGreenleeProductTemplate&upc_number1889>
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I have one just like that, but a different manufacturer.
Which holes are you talking about? I never knew there was a hole for that purpose. I still use a needle nose to make a hook. Of course it takes me only seconds to do it, but if there is an easier way, I'd like to know.
Thanks
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On Sep 25, 2:26?am, snipped-for-privacy@notmail.com wrote:

If you ask me all light duty lamps and extension cords should be fused for safety sake.
One time I had a customer in a mall using a light gauge non grounded extension cord for a 1500W machine that had a tendency to burn wires off shorting to the case.
well I serviced the machine and noted the unsafe condition saying you need a air conditioner extension cord.
my next visit not only had they not changed the extension, they advanced to stapling it to a carpeted wall:( it was hot.
Well I serviced the machine left it to heat and went shopping buying them a AC extension cord. Came back swapped cords and cut their white ligt cord one into pieces so it didnt get reused.
they were very mad, and said you cant charge us for that cord.
my reply no its a gift so no one gets shocked or causes a fire burning down the mall the paperwork would cost a fortune.
I lost the customer they were pissed but at least I knew it was safe when I left and I would do the exact same thing today!.........
no doubt if someone got shocked I would get sued and the machine was in a place customers had access too, the entire outside of the unit a nice metal
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snipped-for-privacy@notmail.com wrote:

I don't see the hole clearly in the jpg. Along the edge of many strippers is a hole that does not seem to have a purpose. Put the tip of the wire in the hole and twist. As Dan said - very fast.
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I guess it's my job to disagree with most of the other posters. 15A circuits let you work with 14 gauge wire. It is orders of magnitude easier to wire outlets and lights with 14 rather than 12. I use 12 only for workshops and kitchens where they might actually be needed. Most radios, TV's , and computers use less power today than even a decade ago. When was the last time you tripped a 15 A circuit breaker by overloading it?
mike

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wrote:

That makes 2 of us. A friend tried to talk me into using #12 for everything (as he'd done at his own place). When I told him that the bulk of the long runs were one light per circuit, and that nearly all of them would be 12W CFs, he started the "what about the next guy" angle. Sheesh! If there's a next guy, and if he wants to use 150W bulbs, and if he thinks that'll stress the #14, then too bad. :-)
Wayne
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snipped-for-privacy@citlink.net wrote:

I have to disagree, I find the "workability" difference between 12 ga and 14 ga virtually unnoticeable. 2 ga copper is a bit of a pain to deal with, but much of anything below that is all the same to me.
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wrote:

I don't agree, but even if there was zero workability difference, that wouldn't be a valid reason to spend even a nickel extra on a 12W circuit, or any low-power circuit. The only half-way reasonable argument I've heard for using 12 on low-power circuits is that it's more forgiving of bad workmanship. But anyone who needs that crutch shouldn't be doing electrical work anyway.
Lots of people (including me) waste money when they don't need to, but we shouldn't encourage the newbs to do that. Ask any question on Usenet, and far more people will tell you to overdo things than underdo them. If a guy with a normal budget started building a home, and followed the Usenet consensus on how to do it, he'd probably run out of money before he finished the foundation. :-)
Wayne
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snipped-for-privacy@citlink.net wrote:

That would almost make sense if circuits always remained in the same usage and with the same loads on them. When someone decides they need to add something to the circuit or upgrade lighting things can change dramatically and the 14ga circuit that was feeding the old circular flouro in the kitchen may suddenly be feeding several halogen populated cans and a pile of halogen under cabinet and soffit lighting in a kitchen remodel.

I've never hear that, and can't even fathom the (il)logic behind it.

Perhaps, but I don't think the cost difference is that significant, even with a complete home since you still can't use 14ga everywhere.
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wrote:

Obviously one should take into account potential expansion, but that's not a good reason to overdo *everything*. You're basically repeating an extremely overused Usenet argument - "what about the next guy". Doesn't make any sense in a lot of cases. For example, I have something like 2 dozen pot lights, each on it's own circuit. If this house ever has another owner, and they decide to add outlets into the ceiling and plug in 100 times the wattage on some of those circuits... But wait... isn't it just as likely that the next guy will end up in a wheelchair? We should build ramps, etc.

You might do some simple experiments with #12 and #14 wire. Pretend you're a novice, and nick the wire when you strip it. Wrap it around a screw connection, and then bend it back and forth like a novice does when he's learning why he shouldn't try to stuff 5' of wire in a 1' box. :-) You'll find that the 14 breaks easier than the 12.

I probably used 1500 ft. of 14, and a lot less of everything else. Everybody giving advice has something they think is worth "just a few extra bucks", or "just a little extra work".
Wayne
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On 9/25/2007 7:54 PM, snipped-for-privacy@citlink.net wrote:

What are you growing under those pot lights? ;)
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Ted
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on 9/25/2007 11:28 PM xPosTech said the following:

Chia pets. :-)
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In Hamptonburgh, NY
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snipped-for-privacy@citlink.net wrote:

More typically, I'm the first guy, and a few years later, the next guy. I'm just as likely to expand or add something as some future owner. As for the ramp thing, there are plenty of folks pushing for all new construction to include such things. I don't agree with them by a long shot, but ramps do come in handy for us otherwise able bodied folks who tend to move a lot of heavy stuff around.

I don't have any 14 ga solid wire. Everything I do is 12 ga or larger.

If you used that much 14 ga, you presumably have a larger than average house, a poorly located main panel, or other unusual configuration of things.
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wrote:

such icy crap we get up here.
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wrote:

Are you saying that you don't have *any* low-power circuits that won't ever be changed?

You shouldn't even need to do the experiment to know that the same reason 14 is easier to handle makes it easier to break.

2000 sq.ft, with an equal-sized attached shop. Everything on one level. Lots of lighting circuits, all one light per circuit. Highest-draw lighting fixtures are several rarely-used double floodlights around the perimeter, 150W each.

Two centrally-located panels.

It's easy to use a lot of wire in a new home, especially if you're fond of home runs. I'm a fan of doing things that are useful and make sense. Using #12 on low-power circuits isn't worth wasting money on, particularly if it's borrowed money. It may seem like a small thing, but by the time most people have paid off their home loan, they'll have worked at least an extra week to pay for that wasted copper. Anybody who can't think of something better to do with that week or the income, should seek suggestions on Usenet. :-)
Wayne
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Ectually, I'd consider putting two dozen single low-moderate wattage fixtures on individual dedicated/homerunned 15A circuits to be a vastly greater waste of money than picking 12ga over 14ga, but perhaps that's just me.
You probably could have put all of the fixtures on a handful of daisy-chained 15A circuits or even 12ga/20A circuits and saved a heck of a lot more than picking 14ga over 12ga.
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On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 00:42:26 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@citlink.net wrote:

I forgot to mention. When putting an outlet for a sump pump or other dedicated circuit with a smaller motor, ALWAYS use a 15A breaker. If that pump siezes or gets stuck from debris in the impeller, you want that breaker to blow before the motor goes up in smoke.
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Just to clarify, you can certainly use a 15 Amp (or even smaller breaker) if you wish but the motor will likely start up better on #12 conductors than on #14 because there will be less voltage drop and therefore more starting current available. Further, the motor should really have its own protection.
Vaughn
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On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:24:14 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"

I agree to a limited degree. By "limited" I mean it depends on the distance from the source (breaker box). If the sump pump is 10 ft. from the box, it really dont matter. If it's 100 ft. it will. Being on a DEDICATED circuit means it DOES have it's own protection. Actually, the house I used to live in, I had a sump pump. I put a single handybox above it and bought one of those cover plates that consist of a switch and fuse holder on one piece. That supplied the single outlet for the pump. I would put 10A fuses in it. (they are probably hard to find these days).
A large motor is another matter. Use large wire for anything over 3/4 HP. Of course many of those are 220V.
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