15 vs 20 amp circuits

That would almost make sense if circuits always remained in the same usage and with the same loads on them. When someone decides they need to add something to the circuit or upgrade lighting things can change dramatically and the 14ga circuit that was feeding the old circular flouro in the kitchen may suddenly be feeding several halogen populated cans and a pile of halogen under cabinet and soffit lighting in a kitchen remodel.

I've never hear that, and can't even fathom the (il)logic behind it.

Perhaps, but I don't think the cost difference is that significant, even with a complete home since you still can't use 14ga everywhere.

Reply to
Pete C.
Loading thread data ...

It's no surprise anyway if you know what you are doing. 3 colours in the box means their's 220 in there somewhere. Splits will have both red and black "lives" plus the white "nuetral"

Reply to
clare at snyder.on.ca

That's not a problem with the solution, it's a problem with the problem - and Joe Bozo is the problem - split circuit or not he's got about a 90% chance of screwing something up.

Reply to
clare at snyder.on.ca

:-)

More voltage = more spectacular screw up.

Reply to
Pete C.

I always use #14 for all lighting, and #12 for all outlets, and the associated proper breaker. You dont need 20A for lights, except possibly in industrial applications. Just keep the lights together, in other words, dont mix lights and outlets, with the possible exception of closets, where one might add an outlet for occasional use to the lighting circuit, or maybe the same in an unfinished attic.

One reason that I learned from an electrician many years ago, was that light bulbs occasionally short internally when they burn out. A 15A breaker will trip faster, so those bulb incidents are less dramatic and less chance of shattering the glass.

I just rewired a barn for a friend. He did not want to change the old fuse box. He's retired from farming and dont have livestock anymore, but his light fixtures were all nasty and corroded, and half of them no longer worked. He also had an outlet that had gotten a bolt of lightning and was all charred and being held together with electrical tape. The lighting wires themselves were all still good because they were #12 UF cable. The only problem was this was the UF without ground. But at 30 to 40 feet off the floor, we decided that as long as the lights were porcelain in plastic boxes, there was no real need to a ground wire, as this wire was "grandfathered in". However, we replaced all the wires for the outlets. Even though the lighting wires were #12, I installed a 15A fuse. There are only five lights w/

100W bulbs. No sense using a 20A, and as I said earlier, if a bulb shorts, it is less likely to shatter the glass. Particularly in a barn where there is hay and stuff like that. (he still bales and sells hay).
Reply to
alvinamorey

I forgot to mention. When putting an outlet for a sump pump or other dedicated circuit with a smaller motor, ALWAYS use a 15A breaker. If that pump siezes or gets stuck from debris in the impeller, you want that breaker to blow before the motor goes up in smoke.

Reply to
alvinamorey

I have one just like that, but a different manufacturer.

Which holes are you talking about? I never knew there was a hole for that purpose. I still use a needle nose to make a hook. Of course it takes me only seconds to do it, but if there is an easier way, I'd like to know.

Thanks

Reply to
alvinamorey

Just to clarify, you can certainly use a 15 Amp (or even smaller breaker) if you wish but the motor will likely start up better on #12 conductors than on #14 because there will be less voltage drop and therefore more starting current available. Further, the motor should really have its own protection.

Vaughn

Reply to
Vaughn Simon

If you ask me all light duty lamps and extension cords should be fused for safety sake.

One time I had a customer in a mall using a light gauge non grounded extension cord for a 1500W machine that had a tendency to burn wires off shorting to the case.

well I serviced the machine and noted the unsafe condition saying you need a air conditioner extension cord.

my next visit not only had they not changed the extension, they advanced to stapling it to a carpeted wall:( it was hot.

Well I serviced the machine left it to heat and went shopping buying them a AC extension cord. Came back swapped cords and cut their white ligt cord one into pieces so it didnt get reused.

they were very mad, and said you cant charge us for that cord.

my reply no its a gift so no one gets shocked or causes a fire burning down the mall the paperwork would cost a fortune.

I lost the customer they were pissed but at least I knew it was safe when I left and I would do the exact same thing today!.........

no doubt if someone got shocked I would get sued and the machine was in a place customers had access too, the entire outside of the unit a nice metal

Reply to
hallerb

Why? If you have the breaker off like you're supposed to, the voltage between all the wires will be -zero- regardless of how the circuit is wired.

Not correct. Three colors in the box means there *might* be 240V in there somewhere. It could also mean switched and unswitched 120V.

Reply to
Doug Miller

If Joe Bozo homeowner doesn't have enough sense to turn the breaker off before he sets about replacing the receptacle, and doesn't pay any attention to which wires go where -- there are much larger problems than having an Edison circuit in the box.

That's just nonsense. Having only 120V present in the box does nothing to eliminate the risk caused by homeowners who are stupid enough to work on live circuits without knowing what they're doing.

You're seeing the wrong problem here.

Reply to
Doug Miller

Do you understand what an order of magnitude is? An order of magnitude is a factor of 10. Two orders of magnitude is 100X. So, you're telling us it's at least 100 times more difficult to run 12 gauge than 14? A job that would take an hour, now takes 100 hours?

I use 12 only for

Reply to
trader4

CSA is superior to UL... There's quite a bit of cross-pollination between the two standards.

The US _used_ to have multi-wire kitchen counter outlets.

Having 30A worth of 120V at every counter receptacle is better than

20A.

However, now that we're going to requiring GFCIs for kitchen counter outlets, split-wire GFCI outlets are non-existant, and double GFCI breakers very expensive, we're switching to the US 20A GFCI standard. But split-wire kitchen counter outlets are sitll perfectly legal if you don't mind paying for double GFCI breakers.

Reply to
Chris Lewis

According to :

As mentioned elsewhere, recent code in Canada now gives you a choice: split outlets or US-style 20A counter outlets. Thing is that they now must be GFCI, and with splits it's real expensive (requires a double GFCI breaker), so I imagine most new homes are going US-style with GFCI.

Also, to be anally correct, the breakoff tabs are not just for split (multiwire) outlets, but for switched/unswitched halves.

Reply to
Chris Lewis

wrote

I actually bought an old house and rewired it to my satisfaction, only to find that the previous owner, a knowledgeable individual IMO, had someone helping him (teenage son probly) who had wired outlets by pushing the wires into the little slots instead of the holes on those cheap push-in receptacles! I guess you'd call him Joe Bozo, Jr.

Reply to
Jim

Musta went to public school...

An order of

Reply to
Jim

Not really, since there aren't any consumer countertop appliances that draw more than 15A. I much prefer having more outlets available as in "quads" and multiple circuits to each quad. My current kitchen has four such "quads", and each is a separate 20A circuit, so I have 80A available to my countertops, and that doesn't count a built in microwave outlet that is on a 20A circuit shared only with the light / vent hood over the stove.

The high cost of GFCI breakers is a problem. I actually saw one installation where a guy installed a bank of GFCI receptacles right beside the main panel as the first device on each 120V circuit to provide the functionality of GFCI breakers. Looked funky, but probably saved him a couple hundred dollars.

Reply to
Pete C.

That's probably better actually. It wouldn't have the sharp edge to keep the wire from pulling out, but it would have better contact pressure over a larger contact area.

Reply to
Pete C.

That won't work for the kitchen or bathrooms ("no other ouitlets")

Reply to
gfretwell

c:

Splitting circuits is nice if you want lots of switched receptacles, but it should be borne in mind that using 14/3, and running from outlet to outlet, the boxes will need to be 20 cu in. We will also be dealing with a multiwire circuit, which does save power and material cost, but adds its own set of problems if the neutral goes bad (which shouldn't happen if the job is done right, but the point is that the potential is there.

240v potential, that is. :) )

Another point is that a tied breaker is desirable for safety, but takes away one advantage of wiring a room with more than one circuit. You can't shut down / trip one without going dark, unless you add yet another.

I wouldn't say there's one "CORRECT" solution, but a large set of correct solutions that may be evaluated for any given case. Every solution has its advantages and drawbacks.

14 AWG /is/ easier to work with. It's not a huge difference, but it's noticeable. It also saves copper, and costs less. These things add up. I use it when I can.

I'd advise the OP to go with 20A circuits for the basement, for the same reason as the Code requires 20A small appliance circuits. One might want a workshop down there some day. On the other hand, there's no reason not to use 15A receptacles on a 20A circuit if the particular use doesn't require 20A.

Reply to
pawlowsk002

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.