well question

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At the top of a 40' well, we have a check valve prior to pump.
With the check valve below the pump, can a hand pump be put on and used with the electrci pump?
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Probably, but you will need a check valve between the hand pump and the user for the electric pump.
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Chas Hurst wrote:

In other words, the check valve there now keeps the water from flowing back into the underground reservoir. When you add the hand pump, you need to add another check valve in the pipe going to it to prevent the electric pump from sucking air through the hand pump instead of water from the ground. Both check valves are to stop back flow.
I'm assuming you want a way to get water when power is out??
Tom J
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The hand pump will already have an internal check valve. An addition check valve will be needed so the hand pump can't draw water from the user of the electric pump.
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I gotta add a valve will be needed to shut off the hand pump when it's not in use, otherwise the electric pump will pump thru it.
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Who comes up with these questions ? I need to know what he means by a 40' well. A hand pump has limits as to how high it can lift. Then, if the lift isn't too great, I envision a T in the main line and a shutoff valve between the T and the hand pump.
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I just realized the lift is 40'. A hand pump won't lift more than about 22'.
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Yes. The idea is to get water with no power, at least cost.
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rb wrote:

Then my discription will work just fine, although I prefer my way, a transfer switch on the power panel with a generator hooked to the transfer box!!
Tom J
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Bob F wrote:

Depends on the pump - 1 of those little $15 short handle pumps, you are correct - the larger long handle, long stroke with tight pipe and good check valve, you are wrong. We use to hand pump from 60 feet down to a tank on a platform 20 feet up before we got electric power. We did finally hook a single cylinder gas engine to a jack stand to operate the pump before getting electric to the farm. It would fill a 1000 gallon tank using 1/2 gallon of gasoline!! Yes, I'm talking about a loooong time ago!!
Tom J
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Type of pump doesn't matter unless it's a jet-pump. The theoretical maximum height is about 27', practical height is about 22'.
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He's having what one might call a "pipe dream".
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Bwahaha! Good 'un. How's the maple surple doing?
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Bob F wrote:

http://www.solar4power.com/solar-power-water-pump.html
Look at the 100L hand pump. The one we had back in the 1930's wouldn't lift 500 feet like this will but it DID do what I said it did!! Some people just don't have a clue and all they know to do is turn on the faucet.
Tom J
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Those systems place the pump down in the well within 22' of the water. You obviously are not aware of the physics or mechanics involved with pumping water. The atmosphere will only support a column of water about 29' high. It's exactly the same as a mercury barometer. The atmosphere will support a column of mercury about 30" high and no more. It's you that hasn't a clue.
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Chas Hurst wrote:

. . Okay, I've been following this thread, admittedly not knowing (or rather, not remembering from school) the maximum height a column of water could be without assistance.
That being said, I distinctly remember the old-style hand pumps... the kind you find in state camping grounds, and used to find in highway waysides, and people who had them on wells with a water table WELL below 22 feet.
So, I did a little checking, and came up with this table: http://www.aermotorwindmills.com/handpumps.htm (there's a nice table about halfway down the page).
Am I wrong in thinking this is a standard hand pump, or is this NOT what you and Tom are talking about?
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I'm not talking about different pumps. The pumps are all the same. The pump you linked to is placed down in the well-close to, or in the water. The 22' is not dependent on manufacture or design, it is the maximum height of a column of water that atmospheric pressure will support. I didn't come up with that figure; some scientist 400 years ago did. Please catch yourself up.
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Ryan P. wrote:

The 2nd picture down is the shape of the pump we had on the farm that did lift water from 60 feet down and pushed it 20 feet higher to a tank. As the data table shows, those old style pumps were capable of bringing water from 100 to 200 fett down!!
You have observed well - those are the type pumps that most windmills were connected to all across the country before electricity was brought to almost everyone.
Tom J
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on 3/1/2008 10:57 AM Tom J said the following:

The differences in hand pump depth lift depends upon whether the pumping mechanism (the pipe, rod, and piston) is lifting the water or sucking it up. If below the surface, yes, the water can be lifted to many heights, because it is lifting (pushing up) the water, rather than sucking it up. If the piston is at ground level, then the piston has to first evacuate the air from the pipe which causes a vacuum in the pipe. It doesn't matter whether the pump is hand powered or motor powered. The vacuum created by evacuating the air is replaced by the water that the ambient barometric pressure pushes down on the surface of the water. When in the Navy, my battle station was damage control. We used a portable water pump called a Handy Billy. It had a gas engine that drew water from a long hose that was dropped into the flooded area. It's maximum lift was listed as 30 feet. If the water level in the flooded area was more than 30' from the pump, then the Handy Billy could be moved to a lower deck that was within the 30' limit, if possible, and its discharge could be hosed to a higher level and over the side, or through discharge ports in the side. The pump then becomes a lifting and pushing pump The most use of the discharge port that was in our shop was to wrap a piece of wire around our AM radio antenna and hang the other end out the port, so we could pick up a signal. :-) The Handy Billy could also be used to fight fires when the ship's power was lost, drawing its water from the sea (as long as the sea level was not more than 30' below the pump), and using the discharge hose as a fire hose.
--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
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There are two kinds of pumps in this discussion. If the pump depends on suction only and everything but the pipe is above the water, you can not pump more than around 30 feet vertically. You are creating a vacuum and are depending on the atmospheric pressure to push the water up the pipe.
If parts of the pump are below the water level , then is is mostly a function of how much power or force you have to move the water. It can be much more than 30 feet.
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