Steer compost in garden

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No I don't mind at all.

I hope you had your tongue firmly in your cheek when you called that "cutting edge" because if you didn't, then I'd hate to see what you include in your "dumb crap" category.

But you think your reference to "Shirley" does have resonance? That is both jingoistic and arrogant on your part given the universal access to newsgroups.

Do you ever attempt to stay on topic or attempt to post from a basis of either logic or relevance? Your obsession with alcohol and your irrelevant and illogical imaginings about other's drinking habits has nothing to do with the topic or the thread. My nationality also has nothing to do with the discussion, however your attempts to use that as a form of insult is duly noted.
This group is called rec.gardens. The question originally asked was: "There is a bark place down the road that sells mushroom compost and steer compost. Is this stuff good for the garden? Can I use it like compost and heap it on the ground around plants and trees?"
If you had bothered to read the question with any degree of comprehension you would have noticed 2 things: the use of the words "compost" and "around plants and trees".
The one and only answer to this question is the one I originally gave. That answer is "yes".
You chose to answer that manure should be six months old before use. I know from long experience, as clearly does David, that such ageing is not necessary and in my case I know that even applies for fresh poultry manure. It depends on where it is spread.
But back to the current twist in his thread. Of course animal manure has pathogens in it. But so does soil. So does water and potting mix. I even provided a post that cited that water retains pathogens longer than manure. If you bothered to spend even a nonosecond thinking about the implications of water borne pathogens then you would be advocating that we don't use water in the garden.
You aren't advocating that, and you would sound like a total idiot if you did. However, that does not mean that you aren't being a patronising idiot in dribbling on continuously about pathogens. If you bothered to pay attention to what other's have written, you would realise that we already know about pathogens in our gardening environment. Note the use of the word "gardening". That does not include the lack of sewers in 19th century Britain.
The discussion here started, and should have remained, about manure used in gardens. If you bothered to stay on topic and not ramble in a free association way, you might be able to figure that out. Now you are forced to try to justify your irrelevant introduction of the British cholera outbreaks of the 19th cenury and choose to do that by trying to be insulting.
Stay on topic. Stick to the pathogens found in manures used in gardens. That does not include human, dog, cat, pig or many other manures.

Lord spare me! That is complete rubbish! Just how many plants have you ever managed to fry with fresh poo? I've yet to use any manure that has ever fried any plant and that includes fresh poultry manure. In your keeness to sound knowledgable on this topic, you fail (as usual) to believe that anyone has a even a modicum of common sense.
A very raw beginner might fry something if they planted straight into fresh manure, but no-one with even a soupcon of gardening experience would manage to do that.

And you, my obtuse non friend, should learn to read for comprehension. I know you like to pontificate but your repeated posts indicate that you aren't following the discussion with any degree of attention. If you weren't always so keen to grandstand and show off, you might actually make some sense more often.
You should avoid root crops in conjunction

This ramble is further indication that you are responding to something in your own head rather than what has so far been covered in this thread. Do try to pay more attention to what is written, not what you think has been written.

Are you trying to prove that you are stupid or are you really just not paying attention? Why refer me to a cite that I provided in the first place? I was the one who posted that cite on the 18th of July. I read it and digested it before you did and I posted it in response to a cite you gave about the most nasty but rare form of E. coli. Most forms of E. coli are harmless but that one is not.

And no doubt you think that your continued grandstanding and opinion on everything even if not backed up by knowledge or experience is helpful. At least you have some amusement value I suppose.
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And I hope that no one gets sick or worse because of your advice.
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Billy
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For crying out loud! Do pay more attention.
I have already given advice in this very thread that whilst the OP can use the steer crap, it shouldn't be used on lettuce or parsley. I just reiterated above that we all know that manures have pathogens. If people can't read this thread and can't figure out by now that manure contains pathogens (as does soil, water and potting mix) and are so ignorant that they can't figure out for themselves that they can just as easily become ill stacking the stuff as you advise as they can from spreading it as I recommend then they must be as sharp as frog spawn and would probably cut off their own foot with a spade and consequently bleed to death if let loose without supervision.
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At some point this dialog went from a discussion to a humorless harangue. G'day.
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Billy
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"Dioclese" <NONE> wrote in message wrote:

That incidence, and another involving lettuce in California, involved on very particularly nasty form of E. coli (viz 0157:H7). There are many varieties of E. coli. The FDA would have to take the most cautious approach they could without putting the fear of raging disease into the whole populace.
There are many other forms of diseases we can pick up in a garden (or in cafes or even from handles on shop doors). I've had cellulitis from the most minute rose prick you've ever seen. My husband had cellulitis when travelling in a tropical country without even getting any break in the skin. It's all about taking sensible precautions without being fear ridden or we'd never garden, own animals, go out of the house etc.
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and how lucky you feel ;-) http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/livestock/publicconcerns/cwa01s11.html
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Billy
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Luck has nothing to do with it as far as I'm concerned. If you looked with any degree of closeness at the chart on that site, you would never garden if you were worried about either pathogens or luck. That site says that Water is a better place for survival of E. coli than manure. No-one I know can garden without water, and as David H-S says, the world is a dirty place. If ya number's up, it's up as far as I'm concerned and till it's up, I garden and I haul fresh manure.
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Right, friday night in Australia and what better amusement than a kickin', gouging, bitin', knock-down, drag-out fight, eh? Fine, if you want to load up your garden with fresh manure in the middle or the end of the growing season, I wish you God's speed. For anyone who doesn't need to tempt the Almighty for thrills, I suggest that they keep their shit in a corner of their property, away from those tasty little plants, for at least three months and preferably four. By that time UV and micro critters should have rendered it healthy to use. I never did consider caution a form of paranoia. But then, I'm older than you;-)
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What the.......?
Fine, if you

So how old do you think I am? And what has that to do with the use of animal poop?
However, if you are going to give such advice then I will provide an alternative thought. If people choose to keep their shit covered in a corner than perhaps they might also be interested in thinking about and finding out how "well rotted animal manure" is arrived at and what happens to the nutrients to reach that stage. I prefer to have the nutrients in my garden and not in some corner somewhere.
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STEER MANURE:
I like the look of steer manure because as a top-coating or mulch it's inert so retards weeds but looks like rich loamy topsoil. If properly and fully composted it will have a good earthy smell and is totally-totally good stuff. If it smells poopy it's not so great, though still not likely to be harmfully pathogenic though even the slightest risk of e-coli would warn against using it if it smells poopy or rotten eggish.
MUSHROOM "COMPOST":
Mushroom compost isn't composted mushrooms but "spent mushroom substrate" and whatever of the mushrooms is in it is usually not even fully composted. It's usually "steamed" before shipped for garden use but is frequently just not authentically a composted product. Because not fully composted it CAN leech nitrogen from soil until it finishes breaking down, though in general this isn't an issue as it is with bark, it has enough nitrogen of its own to unleash some of it rather than draw out the garden's.
Mushroom compost nutrient content is unpredictable because the content of the spent substrate can be extremely varied. Typically it's a mixture of such ingredients as straw, horse manure, chicken manure, peat, bark, and lime. The lime can have effects on soil not planned for, many plants declining due to alkalinity, far fewer plants loving alkalinity.
Commercial compost workers have also been documented to suffer severe respiratory disease from organic mushroom compost dust exposure. Garden use would not have such a risk but it is wise to wear a mask during application, and not use it in arid gardens where winds might stir up dust and spores enough to effect lungs of pets or gardeners. Never apply it if it's dried and powdery; wet it down to 50% moisture which makes it easier to spread and nixes potentially dangerous dust.
If it stinks of ammonia or poo, that's cuz it's got raw sewage or manure, bad, bad. All these caveats sound like it is invariably be rotten stuff for the garden, but it's by and large okay, and mainly you have to consider the issue of it having lime in it and it has to pass the stink test and should smell more like autumn leaves than crap. If you're lucky, the variety of content means it has the best array of micro-nutrients such as manganese and iron and whatnot.
BARK:
Bark is terrible for sucking nitrogen out of soil. It's fine once it's completely broken down and bark's a totally reasonable component of fully composted product, but as chunks of bark uncomposted, the guarantee it will subtract nigrogen from the soil has to be considered. A little bark will encourage beneficial fungus and some shrubs such as vacciniums or dogwoods really like the extra fungus; huckleberries in particular even prefer the lowered nitrogen in favor of heightened fungus. For most gardens it's a poor choice of mulch since depleting the nitrogen slows the growth of most perennials and annuals. If there's reason to WANT the soil to be poor for growing (because nothing will ever be planted there) then these points won't matter.
My favorite of the three is definitely well-composted manure (steer or dairy or chicken or zoo doo), the steer being generally cheapest and having many positive points and very little against it. Chicken manure has twice as much nitrogen as does steer manure, and steer has more nitrogen and potasium than dairy manure, but as a top-coating at least it's all the same as it is fairly inert unless mixed up with soil at which point manure composts feed the microorganisms that produce the nitrogen and other nutrients.
-paghat the ratgirl
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news:gardenSPAM-ME-NOT-

Why do you say that? Do they have greatly different diets where you are?
David
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From chicken to zoo doo http://www.plantea.com/manure.htm
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wrote in message

The table in this is based on some other reference that I don't have but it seems to me to make some assumptions about the diet of the animals. It says steer manure (I suppose they mean beef cattle rather than having some reason to think that cow, heifer or bull manure is different from that of steers) has more seeds than dairy cow. This would only be so if they had different diets. I am thinking this table is based on USA practice which includes much lot feeding. Here you will get dairy cattle on one paddock and beef on the next with them both eating the same pasture. Under those conditions I cannot think why the manure would be very much different. [As for those diary cows you would think that a steady diet of paper would alter their output and it is in fact so.]
It also seems to assume that "manure" includes bedding (ie straw etc that has not been through the beast) This makes a huge difference to composition compared to the straight stuff.
I thought the bit that said "Washed dairy manure from healthy cows is just about perfect for garden use" was interesting. Who washes it? What do they do with the dirty water? Where do they find the water and the time? The mind boggles.
David
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wrote in message

are?
it
says
reason
has
diets.
next
think
in
has
they
mind
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/soil/msg0400570230287.html #
"The big reason cow manure is lower in nitrogen is because it is diverted into milk production..."
"Most factory-type diaries do not use bedding; instead, they flush the manure with water into holding ponds and let it separate. Manure from these types of farms comes from the bottom of the ponds when they are drained." [hence, "washed"]
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One boggle at a time. I looked at several tables and they all reflected the same data, that steers produce more nitrogen compounds than dairy cows. Why is left to conjecture, but diets seems a reasonable guess.
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Some where in all these feces there may be best procedure.
I dont know how to use the following table. Note the issue of time frame.
<http://www.ohioagriculture.gov/oda3/Lepp/Forms/Lepp_3900-APPX%20C_TBL%20 6.pdf>
I think we are discussing available nitrogen.
<http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=available+nitroge n&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8>
Bill a guy that trucked it in covered it with leaves and tilled in time.
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David Hare-Scott wrote:

I've had worse summer jobs...
Bob
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Yes.
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With the caveat that contact (with root crops, lettuce or herbs), splashing from rain, or dust from working the soil can transmit pathogens to low lying fruit and, ultimately, to to you, even if you are Australian. Ornamentals, fruit trees or, corn are no problem.
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mushroom compost is brilliant stuff, not only does it help the garden and existing plants, you usually find your breakfast eash day as well!!!!!!!! in my experience you cannot get better as it is well rotted and prior to being used for mushrooms all the harmful ' ' has been removed
kathryn
www.carreglefn-nurseries.co.uk'Zootal[_3_ Wrote:

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