Soil PH

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John,
nutrient noun a substance that provides nourishment essential for growth and the maintenance of life : fish is a source of many important nutrients, including protein, vitamins, and minerals. ORIGIN mid 17th cent.: from Latin nutrient- <<"nourishing">>, from the verb nutrire.
Please note, "including protein, vitamins, and minerals. There is no energy in vitamins or minerals but they are nutrients.
One of my instructors once picked up a round metal trash can and asked the class what it was. We, enthusiastically said it was a round metal trash can. Where upon he turned it over and started drumming on it. What is it?, he asked again. A drum we responded less enthusiastically. The he sat it up-side down on the floor and sat on it. A thing is only restricted in our imaginations as to what it is. It is what it does.
N, P, K, C and so on are elements and can be nutrients, except for N which is pretty much worthless until it is converted into ammonia or nitrate. C is also pretty inert biologically unless it come as CO2 or carbohydrates.
Now, if you want to talk elements, we need to talk electron orbitals, each of which has a "probability" of being in a particular area at any given time. For our purposes, I presume you will be prepared to talk about the s, p, d, and f orbitals next time. P orbitals are particularly important because they allow for double bonds and aromaticity in cyclical compounds, like tannins.

--

Billy

Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars
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80 + or - 10. I would rather discuss quarks and mesons. Then work our way back to why it is illigal to grow commercial hemp in the USA to relieve the forest from its hurting extracting procedures. Ben Franklin was a hemp farmer, why can I not be one? What was really the problem with Ben Franklin? He watched the lightning raise the hairs on the hemp kite string as it traveled downward into the Earth, LeMay said Franklin couldn't resist reaching out to touch the hemp and, as you'd expect, he got a slight shock. It was not just any string that connected Ben Franklin to the clouds above for his famous experiment, it was hemp string. George Washington as a hemp farmer. The writer of the Declaration of Independence grew hemp. THE STORY OF HEMP IN COLONIAL VIRGINIA, By Herndon. A Dissertation which includes references to George Washington as a hemp farmer. Excellent history. Ask yourself this question: How does George Washington get to grow hemp and not the Curator? It gets to the core of the question, what happened in the last 200 years that we lost such an important right, namely the control of agricultural production. This prohibition must come to an end. What an incredible embarrassment it would be to have to explain to George Washington and Thomas Jefferson that they would have to pull up their hemp crops, that would have been the Second American Revolution! Both men were high on hemp as an important crop to replace and rotate with tobacco. It still is.
We really need to use our minds on something prodcutive. As far as the table of elements. Its still not a table of nutrients. Industrial hemp has thousands of uses, from paper to textiles to biodegradable plastics to health food to fuel. It is one of the fastest growing biomasses on the planet, and one of the earliest domesticated plants known. It also runs parallel with the "Green Future" objectives that are becoming increasingly popular. Hemp requires little to no pesticides, replenishes soil with nutrients and nitrogen, controls erosion of the topsoil, and converts CO2 to oxygen very well, considering how fast it grows. Furthermore, Hemp could be used to replace many potentially harmful products, such as tree paper (the process of which uses bleaches and other toxic chemicals, apart from contributing to deforestation), cosmetics (which often contain synthetic oils that can clog pores and provide little nutritional content for the skin), plastics (which are petroleum based and cannot decompose), and more. Hemp was used extensively by the United States during WWII. Uniforms, canvas, and rope were among the main textiles created from the hemp plant at this time. Much of the hemp used was planted in the Midwest and Kentucky. Historically, hemp production made up a significant portion of Kentucky's economy and many slave plantations located there focused on producing hemp.[25]
In ref. to latter: A nutrient is a substance used in an organism's metabolism which must be taken in from the environment. Non-autotrophic organisms typically acquire nutrients by the ingestion of foods. Methods for nutrient intake vary, with animals and protists having an internal digestive system, while plants digest nutrients externally and then ingested.
Again

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Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
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While kicking around the idea of quarks and their odd flavors may be interesting, it seems a bit (a whole freakin' lot actually) tangential to the discussion of plant nutrients and healthy garden soils. Whereas ionic bonding transports ammonia and nitrates to the root hairs, the actual transport across the cell membrane requires the making and breaking of covalent bonds by the appropriate proteins. So where do quarks come into the conversation? NOWHERE!!!
Or are you asserting that your obfuscation is analogous to my MS Tech Support simile?

I'll catch you at 4:20 but for now can we please stay on subject?

What is CO2? What is NO3, or NH3? Are these nutrients? Are they digested externally? Yes, they are nutrients, and no, they aren't metabolized externally.

Everything above is correctly identified as myths and totally useless to someone who wants to adjust their soil to maximize plant health.
Never mind. I can see that the Borg have landed and conversation is futile.
--

Billy

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Oh really? maybe we can kick this around. First my concern for the health of soils is the supply of cellulose. Cellulose provides glucose for many organisms especially in the soil or more correctly, of the soil. One problem with most definitions of soil is they forget the enormous amount of living organisms that make up "HEALTHY" soil.
e.g., just one def. off the internet.
"Soil is the unconsolidated mineral or organic material on the immediate surface of the earth and serves as a natural medium for the growth of land plants."
Here is another def.
"Dirt, or soil, is made from rocks that break apart or wear away over many years. This is referred to as weathering. It may take 100 to 1000 years for 1 cm of soil to form through weathering. Soil also contains air, water, and humus, the decayed remains of dead animals and plants. Soil can actually be separated into 5 main parts: humus, clay, silt, sand, and gravel." hmmmm!
I prefer this def. Soil is a substance made up of sands, silts, clays, decaying organic matter, air, water and an "enormous number of living organisms". Is it alive or dead? Yes, is the answer. We have no word for a substance that is both living and dead - wood, soil.
Now healthy soil concerns must address an enormous number of living organisms. Cellulose provides food for many.
OK, back to quarks. Cellulose is atoms of carbon, oxygen and hydrogen. Atoms are protons and electrons. Protons and electrons are quarks and leptons. Not that I completely understand it but quarks do play a role in soil health.
Something interesting I was studying when I found this out.
Did you know in a sense trees are music? Music is highly ordered waves and vibrations. Trees are wood, mostly. Wood is cellulose, mostly. Cellulose is atoms of carbon, oxygen and hydrogen. Atoms are protons and electrons. Protons and electrons are quarks and leptons. Quarks and leptons are highly ordered waves and vibrations. Wait a minute!! Music is also highly ordered waves and vibrations!! Think about it.
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Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
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Do you talk like this to your clients? Do they come back after you do? Or, more likely, do they edge away from you slowly and carefully refraining from sudden movements. I'm not a consulting arborist but I'm pretty sure that you don't need to delve into quantum physics to practice effective horticulture. As for trees being music... well ... whatever floats your boat.
ml
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wrote:

Do they come back after you do? Or,

1st. I was not talking to you I was speaking to Billy. 2nd I sure do. Believe it or not some people with an understanding of chemistry do hire people like me who understand a very little about chemistry to work on their property. 3rd You reply really does not explain the topic or offer any incite to the topic. maybe you should comment on something you can offer or add understanding to. As far as your opinion on waves and vibrations, thanks for sharing your beliefs. You or anybody offering a servcie have the right to be ignorant. BTW, what do you mean when you say "practice effective horticulture"? Just what does that mean? Oh, if they did not come back they would not be a client.
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John A. Keslick, Jr.
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yeah fine, whatever. your aluminum foil beanie needs adjusting.
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Oh, kzin
Draining a wetland for a foot path is not only illegal in some areas but a very bad idea.
Ref: http://www.groupsrv.com/hobby/post-3421514.html
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John A. Keslick, Jr.
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well if you follow the entire thread you'll note that I recommend that he seek professional advice. Said professional would have been able to assess the environmental impact of the propsed path and the legality thereof. Also if you read that thread you'd see that it wasn't a wetland he was talking about but an area behind a commercial office block that would flood during the rain.
nice try
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wrote:

Oh, its a flood plain?
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John A. Keslick, Jr.
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wrote:

Nice try? At what? Its still a bad idead to alter wetlands or flood plains.
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John A. Keslick, Jr.
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wrote:>

Think he needs lead foil.
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One more thing about my boat. let me guess. You are talking about the displacement of water? What are you trying to say?
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John A. Keslick, Jr.
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Uh huh.
Humans are mammals. Donkeys are mammals. Therefore humans are donkeys.
David
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Actually, You are made up of chemicals that were parts of millions of other plants and animals including donkeys. A product of recycling!
In the sense that donkeys have the breath of life in their nostrils, makes us very connected.
Did you know Trees and people are about 98% by weight carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, sulfur, and phosphorus. So what makes us different? The way the chemicals are connected. A donkey may be a higher %.
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John A. Keslick, Jr.
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Just for the record, when I first joined this group, I thought people were being unnecessarily harsh towards John and his posts about his "Tree Dictionary." Having been on the site for a few months now, i can see where people are speaking out. Frankly, I find his posts misguided and full of good information mixed in with his own personal agenda (which doesn't always promote what's best for the original poster or even relate to their questions.).
I believe the topic in question was pH in soil, not any of the other topics that have been brought up. I hope that John could stop posting his "Tree dictionary" and just post his thoughts ONCE on this list.
My vote is that John could start his own group and people could VOLUNTARILY choose to hear what he has to say rather than have it forced upon us with every plant question that people post, or his bi- weekly ads.
Thank you, Tad
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What do you have to offer?
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John A. Keslick, Jr.
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Tad wrote:

I love trees. I like killfiles.
Kate
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John,
PLEASE GO BACK AND READ MY POSTS EARLIER IN THIS THREAD REGARDING PH! I POSTED LINKS, AND INFORMATION RELATED TO BIOLOGICAL SOLUTIONS TO PH PROBLEMS!
AND PLEASE....STOP POSTING!!!!
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Well we know that at least one of us is an ass.
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