Lack Of Trees In Irish And British Countrysides

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On Sun, 11 May 2008 05:39:33 -0400, "J. Clarke"

<cough>
Practical difficulties there...rather obvious ones.
Tell me though, are there still Norman Soldiers present on English soil?
Nik
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I have personally met at least two soldiers on English soil called Norman.
Jochen
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Someone else wrote:

Of course there are. They're called the "British Army".
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Hang on, I've gotta get some beer and crisps. Battling citations, I never. But that was a point blank question about "Britain got most of it's marine supplies from the Baltic countries - that trade certainly is mentioned quite frequently in various history books.
Don't be coy duckie, which ones precisely?
But, let me get my beer first;-)
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Billy

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wrote:

At that reference it says:
"Those who traveled across Ireland at this time reported that one could ride all day and not see a single tree, an image that contrasts sharply with the carpet of trees that covered the area only centuries before (Brown, Terry)."
Brown, Terry. "Wood in Development of Civilization." [http://www.cof.orst.edu/cof/teach/for111/Wood%20in%20Development.pdf ]
Which supports my allegation that Ireland was rapidly deforested during the time that Britain invaded and occupied.
Game, set and match Mr Merrick.
Nik
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Someone else wrote:

I made that same comment and you told me to "reread what I had posted". Are you by any chance a loon?
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On Sun, 11 May 2008 05:41:49 -0400, "J. Clarke"

No you didn't.

You're the one claiming to have made certain specific comments when you did not...nowhere did you say, "Game, set and match Mr Merrick" or even, more charitably, "Game, set and match"
Have a nice day Nik
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Someone else wrote:

<rimshot>
<plonk>
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On Mon, 12 May 2008 08:00:58 -0400, "J. Clarke"

I see that as an admission of defeat.
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point. Until you do likewise, we can only assume that you are blowing hot air.
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Billy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net

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Billy wrote:

EERMM! I may be wrong, but I believe that jl was responding to Nik in fact. I will Google for you if you want, but that too is a snare and a delusion in that in the end one is only forwarding on other peoples opinions as facts when they are not.
--
Hal Mearadhaigh.


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I guess the beer got in the way of my eye tooth. Apologies all around. Still, even if we can boil it down to battling authorities (I'm usually keen on Ph.Ds, and those who can direct you to source material), that should clear up some points.
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Billy

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I missed the original question. Which ones: I've recently made a study of English history in the 19th century and the various books - amongst others, include the journals of Mrs Arbuthnot, the journals of Charles Greville, gleanings of the journals of his brother, letters by the Duke of Wellington and various histories of the period. The subject was so important that it cropped up every once in a while.
At that time only Prussia, Scandinavia, Russia and other Baltic countries who still had large parts of the original Northern forest to harvest, could supply the huge needs of a big fleet. Not to mention all the charcoal you needed in order to make bronze for the guns.
I will not read them all again and give page and line number - it was hard work reading them all in the first place!
Jochen
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wrote:

So, <laughter>, are you telling me that the British overlords of Ireland didn't use any of the forests of Ireland for their own ship building?

Yes, but not completely.

Hal has done nothing else than blow hot air. Regulars of SCI have long ago come to this conclusion.
Nik
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Someone else wrote:

Of course not. I am merely stating that you cannot b;lame the English for the deforestation. They only were to blame in a small way. See Allan Connanchie's post whci says much the same, Quote: "> As Ireland had no coal, the needs of 8 million people for charcoal and

Plus I'd imagine that Ireland must be the same as Britain in that whatever deforestation took place in the second half of the second millenium was deforestation of what little remained of the woodland cover. Most of Britain's had already gone by 1500AD because of pastoral agriculture; the need for resources; and even possibly natural climatic effects within the last 5000 years or so. This website claims (I imagine it can only be guesswork) that the original forests had been halved by 500BC and was down to around just 15% by the 1080s. Perhaps degree may have been different but surely Iron Age and first millenium Ireland couldn't have been that different from Britain at that time?
http://www.stewardwood.org/woodland/tree_loss.htm
- UNquote.
So, the deforestation of Ireland was due to natural causes and actually started centuruies earlier than any English occupation.

How so?

I am in very good company here then, since your own efforts have been far from well received and are definately hot air!. Ignorance is as ignorance does!
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In article

I once knew a tweaker who talked like you. Perhaps you may care to take a look look at Jochem's website before you go and make too much of a fool of yerself;-) http://www.jochenlueg.freeuk.com
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Billy

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Plus I'd imagine that Ireland must be the same as Britain in that whatever deforestation took place in the second half of the second millenium was deforestation of what little remained of the woodland cover. Most of Britain's had already gone by 1500AD because of pastoral agriculture; the need for resources; and even possibly natural climatic effects within the last 5000 years or so. This website claims (I imagine it can only be guesswork) that the original forests had been halved by 500BC and was down to around just 15% by the 1080s. Perhaps degree may have been different but surely Iron Age and first millenium Ireland couldn't have been that different from Britain at that time?
http://www.stewardwood.org/woodland/tree_loss.htm
Allan
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Irish agriculture was much more pastoral than arable, which may have meant we held on to forest for longer.

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Not sure about that. Goats and sheep can devastate a landscape because no new shoots get the chance to grow and young trees are quickly nibbled to death.
Jochen
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The Olde Irish favoured cattle.
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Fachadir
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