Lack Of Trees In Irish And British Countrysides

Page 2 of 6  
wrote:

In your opinion.

Which question, in particular, and explicitly stated, is that?

Is there some law that specifies that in usenet I must repeatedly refer to the original poster's point?
For the fun of it, here is the OPs posting:
"TV documentaries and travelogues reveal a lot of lush "green" in those (meaning Ireland and Britain) countrysides but a relative scarcity of trees. Is it climate? Too windy in Ireland? Sheep and/or other livestock?
My answer is that Ireland was once heavily forested but has been deforested and that the English ruling class, historically, were the proximate cause of that deforestation.

Forget the attempts to patronise...and here it is...again...the OP's post:
"TV documentaries and travelogues reveal a lot of lush "green" in those countrysides but a relative scarcity of trees. Is it climate? Too windy in Ireland? Sheep and/or other livestock?"
I suppose trees could now be replanted...there are forests in Ireland nowadays, they aren't big but they're there...the arboretum planted for JFK's visit for example.

Yeah, so?

So?
Right. I suppose trees could now be replanted...there are forests in Ireland nowadays, they aren't big but they're there...the arboretum planted for JFK's visit for example.
The reasons why the trees aren't being replanted now are questions for the Irish government and private land owners.
Have a nice day Nik
-
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes, but I note that I'm not the only one with that opinion.

viz: "I am responding to questions about the deforestation of Ireland..."
You wrote that. No question about the deforestation of Ireland has been asked in this thread. You may choose to dribble on about it but it was not asked.

Only the sort of 'law' any competent undergraduates should know. It works like this: "TV documentaries and travelogues reveal a lot of lush "green" in those (meaning Ireland and Britain) countrysides but a relative scarcity of trees. Is it climate? Too windy in Ireland? Sheep and/or other livestock? Discuss"
Read the statement, understand what the statement is about, do research on the topic, decide which information is pertinent, write a response and provide evidence to support your stance.
You would rate a fail because you didn't understand the statement and went on to discuss something unrelated.

And that answer is irrelevant and simply harps back to your failure to comprehend that the OP is interested in the current time. The interest is NOT about deforestation. Trees can be grown in 80 years or less. How long has it been since the Armada sailed?

If your lecturers are right about your reading abilities, you wouldn't need me to explain. I don't spoon feed (your lecturers might).

Try reading the subject header and try remembering how often you mentioned any lack of trees in Britain.

Of course they could.
there are forests in

See, you can understand the statement when pushed to do so.

Thank you. So far I've had an expemplary day and it will shortly get even better.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Ad populum...

Ah well...you're just going to have to cope then aren't you?

This is usenet, not an undergrad essay topic...

<laughter>
Here tis, I've begun to answer the OPs question...here, for your reading pleasure I'll go on further to suggest that the concrete industry in Ireland has a fair amount to answer for...one thing that you may, or may not appreciate about Ireland is the way politics, in the 26 counties works...its not as straight forward as one might think...there are 'behind the scenes' exchanges of funds...as you may note recently with the resignation of Bertie Ahern:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/04/03/dl0302.xml
"The ignominious manner of Bertie Ahern's surprise departure from office, tarnished by allegations of financial impropriety..."

I get your point but I'm not replying to the bit about British countrysides...I don't have to...this is usenet.

I get your point but I'm not replying to the bit about British countrysides...I don't have to...this is usenet.

The real reasons why they aren't are likely to be much more complicated than someone who's never lived in Ireland might think. A significant factor has to be population density...the places where the population isn't so dense e.g. the Burren aren't particularly hospitable to trees.

Have you considered the possibility that I've been having you on all along?

Hurrah!
Nik
-
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

And here was I thinking you were actually serious about having an interest in Ireland and Irish history and just had problems presenting information in a sensible and ordered fashion. I was wrong on the former but was right on the latter, but then that is a typical tactic of a troll.
Sometimes I enjoy playing with trolls but I've decided that life is too short to bother with you.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

You'd be right there.

Like I've said before, my supervising lecturers disagree...and basing an opinion like that on usenet postings is unreliable at best.
Nik
-
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

That conclusion is not logically valid. You are assuming that the respondent you are replying to read the very first post in the thread to begin with.
Culchie
-
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

There were reports and inquiries on a regular basis, particularly once young Pitt became prime minister and a new fleet was built. A lot of the paperwork has survived and has been collated by people like Aspinal.
Jochen
--

------------------------------------
Limavady and the Roe Valley
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Someone else wrote:

NOT the British, who always had plenty of forests of their own, but also imported any woods for ship building mostly from Scandinavia.

Peat bogs? of course. But they were also forested.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Hal Ó Mearadhaigh. wrote:

Nonsense! : See http://fubini.swarthmore.edu/~ENVS2/S2003/jessiewhit/deforestation.html

So? If the estates were his, then he had every right to do as he pleased. In any case, how many ships? Possibly two at most? Not a lot of Oak involved in that.Why do you isist on being such a begrudger against the English? After all, without England, Ireland would not have progressed past the Iron age. Technology, smelting iron, using wood for that? The largest industry in Wicklow for many a long year was Forestry. Nothing to do with the English.

Your source?

Bullshit. Over simplification and merely your own unsupported opinion. See: http://fubini.swarthmore.edu/~ENVS2/S2003/jessiewhit/deforestation.html

Maybe you should use Google Nik, everyone else seems to!
ROTFL
--
Hal Ó Mearadhaigh.


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Hal Ó Mearadhaigh. wrote:

Which, among other things, says "The deforestation effects of increased shipbuilding was most visible in the change of Great Britain’s landscape during the fifteenth to eighteenth centuries. Those who traveled across Ireland at this time reported that one could ride all day and not see a single tree, an image that contrasts sharply with the carpet of trees that covered the area only centuries before (Brown, Terry)."
So I guess your own source is spouting "nonsense".

You're the one turning "British" into "English".

So what did they do with the wood?

Which supports his view, not yours.

You really should read your own sources in their entirety before using them to refute the statements of others.
--
--
--John
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
J. Clarke wrote:

No, he is claiming the deforestation was due to the English (or British) coming into Ireland and removing our forests to supply wood for the fleet against the Spanish Armada! There is NO proof of that SFAICS, and I doubt that it happened. How long does it take to build a warship from wood?

Your the one being so specific! English/British, so what? In the context it means the same thing and everyone knows what I meant.

They used it for houses, for smelting iron, and yes, for building ships probably.

Not if you read and understand what I have written, see above.

Oh, but I have. And I am not afraid to post the entire source rather than a carefully edited smidgion. You should try understanding English a bit more!
--
Hal Ó Mearadhaigh.

>
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Hal Ó Mearadhaigh. wrote:

You're being picky. Not just the Spanish Armada, but the French Navy and everything in between. Britain was a naval power. To do that they needed a navy. To get a navy when the only way you know to build ships is to cut down trees, you cut down trees.

What difference does it make how long it takes to build a ship? Great Britain built thousands of them.

May mean it to you, but it doesn't to a Scot or a Welshman.

So how much did they use for each purpose, and what did they make with the iron?

I read what you wrote and your source does not support it.

You haven't posted "the entire source", you've posted a link. If you think that it supports your view then find quotations from it that do so.
--
--
--John
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 10 May 2008 12:17:17 -0400, "J. Clarke"

Reread what you've just posted.

Only in the sense of a 'Conqueror's right'...of course stolen property remains stolen property even if it was taken as the spoils of war and in no way guarantees that that property will remain in their control....

No idea.

How can you make that claim? What evidence do you have?

I begrudge them their invasion and occupation of Ireland. It has stunted Ireland's development as a sovereign nation for centuries...happily this is finally coming to an end...

People quibble about that...it is true though that at 1588 it was only England and not Britain that was doing the fighting.

Ireland has

Of course...Celts were the first western Europeans to have damascene steel...

I'm not disagreeing but I'm interested in your justification for that claim.

http://www.millersville.edu/~columbus/papers/nucci.html
Bibliography
1. Lacey, Robert, Sir Walter Ralegh, Atheneum, New York, 1974 2. Pollard, A.F., The Political History of England, Greenwood Press Publishers, New York,1969 3. Rodriguez-Salgado, M.J., England, Spain and The Gran Armada, Barnes and Nobel Books,Savage Maryland, 1990 4. www.devon-cc.gov.uk/tourism/pages/woodbury/raleigh.html Sir Walter Raleigh, of Hayes Barton 5. Sale, Kirkpatrick, The Conquest of Paradise, First Plume Printing, New York, 1990

Right.
Like I've said, on a number of occasions, Merrick is an idiot who has no compunction when it comes to ignoring basic logical truths, sad but true.
Nik
-
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Someone else wrote:

What do you think I'm going to find there?

Estates were given to him by the Queen. I'm sorry, but Raleigh didn't "conquer" them. If you have a problem it's with the Queen, not with Raleigh.

What does 1588 have to do with anything?

--
--
--John
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 11 May 2008 05:34:12 -0400, "J. Clarke"

Raleigh, Queen...both part of the English ruling class...I have a problem with the both of them.

That was the time of the battle against the Spanish Armada and the time that Ireland was substantially deforested...do try to keep up.

Amusing that.
Nik
-
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Someone else wrote:

And you have a source with that date for the deforestation?
If the entirety of the British Isles was deforested in 1588 then where did they get the lumber to fight Napoleon? Had it all grown back plus much more in 200 years?

--
--
--John
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Oh so now you have gone and done it. You had to bring up the conquest and all the troubles that entails. There was a considerable amount of resistance to the idea of Irish property being requisitioned by the English. You may have heard about it.

--

Billy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net

  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Billy wrote:

LOL! Indeed I have!! Why do you think I said that if not to get up the noses of our fundamentalist republicans? Humour is as humour does!

--
Hal Mearadhaigh.



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

The crime of taking property using force is, in law, called 'aggravated robbery'. Furthermore, the passing of time makes that property no less stolen.

http://www.millersville.edu/~columbus/papers/nucci.html
Bibliography
1. Lacey, Robert, Sir Walter Ralegh, Atheneum, New York, 1974 2. Pollard, A.F., The Political History of England, Greenwood Press Publishers, New York,1969 3. Rodriguez-Salgado, M.J., England, Spain and The Gran Armada, Barnes and Nobel Books,Savage Maryland, 1990 4. www.devon-cc.gov.uk/tourism/pages/woodbury/raleigh.html Sir Walter Raleigh, of Hayes Barton 5. Sale, Kirkpatrick, The Conquest of Paradise, First Plume Printing, New York, 1990
Nik
-
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Someone else wrote:

So you're saying that the Normans should give England back to the Anglo Saxons?
--
--
--John
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.