compost

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The local grocery has a compost recycle bin, for food scraps etc. Even the plates and utensils go in there.
I was wondering, what constitutes 'composting'? I mean, does it simply get dumped into a big grinder, or is there some enzymatic chemistry involved?
And who/how/where receives it? Is it really superior to petrochemical fertilizer, or is it guilty conscience liberal feelgoodism?
-- Rich
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Yes enzymatic chemistry is invoved as all living things use enzymes. Physical grinding is often used as part of the process to speed up decomposition but if you are prepared to wait this isn't required. The breakdown activity is mainly done by microorganisms, like fungi, but worms, insects and other little greeblies play in there too.

In this particular case I have no idea. In general ordinary people with gardens and serious growers both use it. We have been doing it for 1000s of years. It is not some New Age Fad.
Is it really

Compost is not a complete fertiliser as you need some additional inputs because not all the elements required for plants are fully recycled in this way. However in some ways it is much superior to synthetic fertiliser as it adds organic matter to the soil which is essential for healthy soil.
Composting is a way of getting value from what would otherwise be a wasted resource. So it gets rid of garbage, saves having to get fertiliser and organic material from some other source, saves money and improves your garden at the same time.
There are many "recycling" schemes. Some work well, some work a bit and some are nonsence. Composting is one that works. It may be that even conservatives have been known to do it but probably only with the lights off under a blanket.
David
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RichD schrieb:

No, the petrochemical producs are better. They sell better and the market doesn't lie.
Karsten
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Karsten Kruse schrieb:

I'm sorry to have to answer my own posting. I forgot the smilie, so here it is:
;)
Karsten
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And don't forget to use lots of pesticides too. They are made from petroleum as well. I mean, if we are willing to go to war and cause incredible suffering, then it must be a good thing ;o), so eats lots of it. The really good unintended consequence is, of course, it cures conservative's cranial-rectal inversion, which makes this liberal feel good ;O).
Chem ferts are great at sterilizing the ground. They are salts and over use kills just about everything that supports a plant in "natural", microbiologically infested soil. When used, as intended, they encourage the nitrogen consuming bacteria (not all bacteria) to consume as much organic material in the soil as they can, thereby depleting the soil of its' water holding capacity. This causes the chem fert to drain away and pollute someone's drinking water or, flow down the Mississippi where it creates a huge dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico. There is also an over all loss of bacteria which impacts the soil because the bacteria produce a mucous to bind soil together which slows down their predators. This mucous also helps prevent soil erosion. And if you like insects, you'll be happy to hear that plants store the nitrates from chem ferts in their soft, fast growing, nutrient laden leaves, which in turn, attracts hungry insects.
So, you end up with dead soil, water pollution, soil erosion and, a plague of insects. Wow, what a deal ;O) I mean, talk about getting your money's worth. And speaking of money the less fertile your soil becomes the more chem ferts you need to buy to get the same amount of crop. I mean, is this a (Gingrich) conservative's wet dream or what?
Now compost may, or may not, be a fertilizer in the N P K sense of the word. It is dependent on what is composted, be it vegetation or doo-doo. Compost is simply stacking up and the natural breaking down of organic material. If you want to get rid of any viable seeds or other pathogens in the compost, make a bigger stack and it will generate enough heat during its' decomposition to denature them. You can occasionally spray some water on the pile or piss on it. I'm afraid there are no commercial products needed to make compost. The purpose of the compost is to feed the soil. Feed the soil and, the soil will take care of your plants. Feed the bacteria and fungi (the decomposers) in your soil and, they will feed the nematodes and amoeba, who in turn fed the worms and insects, who feed burrowing mammals. What you end up with is soil gifted with a dynamic, balanced community of organism whose birth and death cycles enrich the soil (NPK and much more) and, a soil that is well ventilated, drained and, able to retain moisture. It doesn't make any profit for Monsanto though unless you buy their seeds.
Truth be told, I don't compost very much. I just haven't developed the habit. What I do, is grow what is called a "green manure" (plants that either fix nitrogen or generate a lot of bio-mass in the soil) early in the year. These get cut down two weeks before planting to decompose where they are. Then I lay three to four inches of alfalfa "mulch" on the soil. This mulch, as it breaks down, is my replacement for compost. Then I lay my drip lines on the mulch and for my plants that require heat, I lay clear plastic over it all and, cut holes next to the drip emitters for planting.
Petroleum fertilizers and pesticides allow for huge monoculture plantings but mixed crop organic farming can produce more total food on the same acrage. The organic approach also grows healthy soil.
GMO seeds don't produce more crop. Mostly they let you buy more petroleum based Round-up to spray on your crop. They also produce proteins that your immune system may or may not react to, in some cases they kill butterflys, and there is always the concern of genetic drift, where traits (like resistance to Round up) can be passed to weeds.
So if anybody should have a guilty conscience, it is the "Gingrich" conservatives (they aren't really conservatives) who promote snake oil products that they don't understand or do understand but just want to encourage snake oil sales.
Viva Castro
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
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Billy schrieb:

_Exactly_!
A shame, the industry should do something about it.

Sounds like communism to me!</sarcasm>

Agreed :).
Karsten
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Lots of compost products, you MUST have them ALL:
1) Composting "tumblers", $200 and up ($500 for the "twin barrel" system)
2) Cedar or wire compost "bins," $40 and up
3) Canvas "leaf haulers" to get leaves to the compost, $30
4) Chippers, to turn twigs into compostable bits, $700 or so
5) "Ground flush wheelbarrows" wide and shallow, to haul grass and clippings to compost, regular wheelbarrow or a cardboard box just wont do, $80 or so
6) "Compost Maker" or "Compost Excellerater" -- all brands are unique and wonderful with magic ingredients, around $10 per container, buy several kinds, including liquid, granular, or sticks that can just be pounded into in pile.
7) Worms! Starter batch of wigglies, $15
8) Sand! to make compost drain better. $8 a bag
9) Shovel to turn compost, $15.00
10) Tined bail fork to aerate compost, $15.00
11) Aerator plunger, because a tined fork and shovel ain't enough for a really well aerated pile, $20
12) Soil Sifter to help granulate finished compost, $100
13) Rotary sifter to mix different kinds of finished compost as granulated, mounted over wheelbarrow, only $500
14) Stainless Steel "Peely bin" for kitchen waste, handled for ease of carrying to compost pile: $80 gets a pretty nice one, you don't want the $10 chintzy plastic jobby.
15) Galvanized chimney-lid on galvanized can, to use as incinerator to make your own ash out of paper and twigs: $50
16) Compost thermometer, you could die if it cooks too cool to kill germs, $20
17) Biodegradable leaf sacks, fill 'em up, toss 'em bag and all on compost: $15 for three.
18) "Tidy screens" look like bamboo mats, make nice "wraps" for the compost pile so it won't be an eye soar, $30 per screen, you'll need probably three of them, so $90
19) Plastic composting bag, "kit" with tripod bag-hanger, for that kitchen waste that stinks too much for the regular pile, $30 starter kit, extra bags $8 each, get a dozen of those to start with.
20) Compressed bails of sawdust or wood shavings, ESSENTIAL soil builders mixed into the garden waste, $15 per bail, you'll need lots of bails
21) Fleece Compost Covers, keeps compost moist and none of it blows away, $75 or so, not so much when you consider it's "CO2 permeable" making these covers absolutely essential.
22) Compost bucket, to move finished compost from place to place in teh garden, because you well know an ordinary bucket will never do it as well: $20
23) Compost Test Kit. You'll end up killing your entire garden if you don't test the pH, nitrogen level,, sodium content and what-not. $50 for the kit in a nice leathette case, but you can go cheaper if you don't actually love your garden.
24) Compost Planning Software. If you don't have the right computer software with compost recipes and loads of advice, you're just wasting your time. $250 might seem an awful lot, but do you want a dead garden? I didn't think so.
25) Compost tool holder, $25
26) Finished compost holder bin. You certainly can't leave that finished compost on the ground getting all dirty. And a special bin is only about $50
27) Concrete toad, gnome, hedgehog, or jockey. Something nice for the top of the pile. $50. If you'd prefer a Japanese stone lantern, $300.
28) Books about composting, get several, preferably published by vendors of the above products as they explain best why you need all that stuff: $20 per book on average, get about ten different titles so you'll become expert, so: $200
If you run out of cool compost essentials to buy, just ask your vendor what else you can get, there'll be something else, never fear.
-paghat the ratgirl
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visit my temperate gardening website:
http://www.paghat.com
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I haven't had any organic waste reach the curb in over 20 years. It's all been nicely composted in a little black box outside by back door, 2 feet high, 2 feet wide, and 2 feet deep.
It's amazing what KKKonservative AmeriKKKunts spend their time whining about.
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wrote:

I hope your not joining the "Govenator" in talking about "girlie men". Let's try to keep the wackos to the right of us. Make that

and you'll have more agreement with your statement.
Unlike Saddam Hussein, the "Traitor" should have a fair trial and a chance to provide testimony in on going investigations of what-in-the-hell-has-been-going-on-for-the-last-eight-years-?, before the punishment stage is arrived at.
But I think your on to something:O)
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
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wrote:

Lived in VA for sometime. The Chesapeake bay greened out due to lawn fertilizer wash-off. All the oxygen was sucked out of the water. Negatively affected the fish and oyster population big-time.
A creek within Austin, TX has been documented with multiple limbed frogs. Traced back to run-off from a commonly used herbicide made by Monsanto.
--
Dave



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In support of your smile: When farming, we would dump around seven hundred tons of compost on a single one hundred acre unit. This reduced our dependence on [incomplete] chemical fertilizers (heck, it was winter, we had nothing else to do). The biggest "upside" was we were not growing nutritionally hollow food. People often commented on the better taste of things grown with compost and mineral supplements. For example, try a garden fresh tomato with good soil, then try one from a hot house supplier. The only reason we turned to chemical (e.g., thousands of gallons of nitrogen pumped through the irrigations circles) was to survive/compete on the market and, in the end, the corn looked damn good. Still, just like us humans, plants are more than just a little nitrogen, potassium, and ....... On a side note, go look at the soil on many of the farms. It's dead. FungiCIDES, pestiCIDES and so forth kill everything. Everything works together, but we have a better way. Just like our management of the forests (okay, maybe that didn't turn out so well and introducing other than indigenous species only resulted in very happy beetles, or stopping forest fires wasn't such a good ideal, or......).
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On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:59:18 -0700 (PDT), RichD

There is the action of bacteria, worms etc., which feed on the scraps and turn it to compost. Heat and moisture in appropriate amounts speeds up the process. Is it better than chemical fertiliser? Well, it's better for the environment - and better for the soil you add it to, not the least because it contains fibrous vegetable matter which improves the quality of the soil you add it to. It works best when it contains sufficient nitrogen and other nutrients required by the plants you intend to grow.
JD
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Does the compost pile get hot enough to kill most of the weeds and their seeds though?
One of my gardener friends advised me to put the cut grass, garden clippings, weeds into a plastc trash bin for about a month with some water inside - before putting it into the compost pile. That way - more weeds and seeds would die.
A more through way, he explained, was to make compost tea - and soak the weeds into water til they rotted.
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the times I've done that by accident, I've ended up with a stinking mess, due to the anaerobic conditions (think pond scum, or if you live in cold climates, the spring staunch when ice melts off the top of ponds and lakes) . sure its good for the plants, after you let it compost more in the open (aerobic conditions). but its not great if you live by neighbors with sensitive noses.
thanks, Simon

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wrote:

I have added yards of pond scum, azola, Anacharis, parrot feather, algae and whatever else I can drag out of the water to the compost (My spring-fed pond can be very active). There are fish, crayfish, tadpoles and other things in it. It never has produced a foul odor, maybe because I'm using round (rabbit) wire bins so more air gets to the heaps. Strange to see the parrot feather still actively growing after two weeks out of the water. A good cooking process should produce steam and an earthy smell--but conditions may not be right all the time. When it works as it should its almost magic especially if you havn't seen it happen before. A gardener that doesn't have an active compost pile is really missing something.
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yip. once you get air into something smelly, it usually clears up pretty soon.in general, the bacterias that cause foul orders can't thrive in environments rich in oxygen.
Simon
Phisherman wrote:

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RichD wrote:

Paper plates presumably, but dumping plastic or metal utensils seems very wasteful. I presume this is in the USA throw away culture.

Usually making a big enough heap so that it will get hot by fungal and/or bacterial action to kill weed seeds and decompose whatever is put into it into fibrous loam. Takes 6 months - maybe less in ideal conditions.

No need to grind it. The worms will do that for you. A decent hot compost pile will get up to 70C or more internally a few days after being built and may require turning over two or three times before the material is all fully rotted down. Size matters. Anaerobic or excessively wet ones smell bad.

It is in effect a soil conditioner. Same sort of thing as leaf mould in a forest. You would get similar stuff by letting it rot down in situ only done more controllably. Most municipalities that do large scale composting make it available to allotment holders or large scale horticultural sites.
Petrochemical fertilisers are a lot more concentrated but are neither better nor worse as far as the plant is concerned. The biggest difference is that adding bulky compost to a heavy clay soil will vastly improve drainage and long term fertility whereas chemicals will only get you a quick a temporary fix (if that).
Regards, Martin Brown
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Martin Brown wrote:

Whole Foods markets in the U.S. have a collecting bin for compostable materials. The utensils provided with their ready-to-eat foods are made from a biodegradable plastic, so they can go with the paper plates and leftover food.
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Some cultery is also now made from bamboo.
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