anise or fennel?

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My neighbor recently dug up a huge bush from his yard- it is about 5 feet tall - and gave it to me in a bucket (wastepaper basket). He tells me that it is 'anise' (and it has a faint licorice-like flavor to it) but according to my gardening book, fennel grows 5 feet high, and anise grows only 1 foot high. How can I tell which plant I've got?
I am perhaps confused or misled by the passages in my gardening book that say that
anise cilanthro fennel licorice
are all members of the parsley family. Will they cross-breed if I raise them next to each other? Anise is an annual, but fennel is a perennial. If they are crossed, is there any way of knowing in advance whether the result is a perennial?
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Matthew Montchalin wrote:

Feathery leaf, much like chervil

VILE smell, and coriander seed when it's done

Dilly leaf, possibly bulbous stem at ground level

Not in the same family at all.

No. And that's pretty much the definition of genus (as opposed to species).

Aniseed gets _huge_. 5' is about right. Anise hyssop (Agastache foeniculum) is another anisy plant (in the Lamiaceae, though - pretty blue or white flower spikes), as is sweet cicely (Myrrhis odorata)(in the Apiaceae, like anise, parsley, cilantro and fennel)(very soft fernlike leaf, longish seed that tastes of anise sweets when it's green, but of nothing at all when it's ripe and black).
Licorice is NOT in the Apiaceae. It's in the Fabaceae; and its leaf does not taste or smell of anise - the root tastes of sweet sweet licorice, instead.
Henriette
--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed
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blanks) wrote:

Not everyone perceives the smell as vile. ("There are two kinds of people...") If you like real Mexican food (as opposed to the fast-food chain that pretends to be Mexican), you'll recognize the smell.
cheers,
Marj
* * * Marj Tiefert: http://www.mindspring.com/~mtiefert/ Mediterranean Garden Shop: http://stores.tiefert.com/garden / In Sunset zone 14-mild
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You can say that again. I make my salsa cruda by the gallon (about one a week, more if there's company) and it's just not the same without a couple hands full of cilanto in it.
--
Art Sackett


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snipped-for-privacy@artsackett.com (Art Sackett) wrote in message wrote:

I have heard that certain people lack an enzyme in their mouths (or have an extra one, or something like that), the result of which is that cilantro has a disagreeable "soapy" taste. My friend said she had heard the same thing, and that something like one in five people has this problem. It makes sense on one hand, but on the other hand I, as a cilantro-hater, also find the aroma repugnant, and it doesn't make sense that aromas would be affected by the enzymes in my mouth...
floating_away
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Well, assuming for a moment that this so called enzyme theory is true, your perception of the aroma would have a great deal to do with such an enzyme. Taste and Smell are very much linked together, and if one is diminished (or enhanced) for some reason, the other is most definately affected. Remember anything from grade-school about the blindfolded taste tests? How by holding or plugging one's nose an apple and a potato taste nearly identical.
This is not to say I'm buying into this idea of a mouth enzyme. I will say however that as a child I thought that fresh cilantro had a vile smell, one I can't quite describe now becuase oddly enough it no longer affects me this way. In fact cilantro no longer seems to have very much of a smell at all. I know this is me, becuase my roommate can still very much smell that odor which some (including myself at one time) describe as vile. But for some reason I no longer smell it! Funny how this never came up in those, "So now your becomming a man" classes...
wrote:

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On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Henriette Kress wrote: |Licorice is NOT in the Apiaceae. It's in the Fabaceae; and its leaf does |not taste or smell of anise - the root tastes of sweet sweet licorice, |instead.
Ah! Thanks for the correction! :)
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On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Henriette Kress wrote: |> I am perhaps confused or misled by the passages in my gardening |> book that say that|> |> anise| |Feathery leaf, much like chervil | |> cilanthro| |VILE smell, and coriander seed when it's done | |> fennel| |Dilly leaf, possibly bulbous stem at ground level | |> licorice| |Not in the same family at all.
ok
|> are all members of the parsley family. Will they cross-breed |> if I raise them next to each other?| |No. And that's pretty much the definition of genus (as opposed to |species). | |> Anise is an annual, but |> fennel is a perennial. If they are crossed, is there any way |> of knowing in advance whether the result is a perennial?| |Aniseed gets _huge_. 5' is about right. |Anise hyssop (Agastache foeniculum) is another anisy plant (in the |Lamiaceae, though - pretty blue or white flower spikes), as is sweet cicely |(Myrrhis odorata)(in the Apiaceae, like anise, parsley, cilantro and |fennel)(very soft fernlike leaf, longish seed that tastes of anise sweets |when it's green, but of nothing at all when it's ripe and black).
Does the oil of anise or fennel confer an advantage in some way? Do predators or insects shy away from anise of fennel, because of the way it tastes?
|Licorice is NOT in the Apiaceae. It's in the Fabaceae; and its leaf does |not taste or smell of anise - the root tastes of sweet sweet licorice, |instead.
Is the oil in the licorice root have the same chemical makeup as the oil in anise or fennel?
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Matthew Montchalin wrote:

Nope. But most licorice candy is made with anise oil instead of licorice...
Henriette
--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed
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On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Henriette Kress wrote: |> I am perhaps confused or misled by the passages in my gardening |> book that say that|> |> anise| |Feathery leaf, much like chervil | |> cilanthro| |VILE smell, and coriander seed when it's done | |> fennel| |Dilly leaf, possibly bulbous stem at ground level | |> licorice| |Not in the same family at all.
Finally, I have heard some people tell me that "Italian" parsley does not taste like 'regular' parsley, but has a different taste altogether. Is it similar to cilanthro (which to me has a tangy, metallic sort of flavor) or something else altogether?
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No, no. You have it backwards.
"Roman Cilantro" is parsley!!!!!

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On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Cereoid-UR12- wrote: |No, no. You have it backwards. | |"Roman Cilantro" is parsley!!!!!
Then I doff my hat to you, I honestly don't know.
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:16:32 -0700, Matthew Montchalin

I don't think so. I grow cilantro, flat-leaf (Italian parsley) and curly (regular) parsley.
I think the Italian parsley tastes pretty much like the 'regular' parsley, but milder, less strong - you could say 'a more delicate taste'.
I certainly don't think it (Italian parsley) tastes anything at all like cilantro. No way.
But tastes are tricky, you know, and I'm convinced that what *I* taste may not be the same as what *you* taste. Very individual things, tastes.
Pat
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Pat Meadows wrote: |>Finally, I have heard some people tell me that "Italian" parsley |>does not taste like 'regular' parsley, but has a different taste |>altogether. Is it similar to cilanthro (which to me has a tangy, |>metallic sort of flavor) or something else altogether?| |I don't think so. I grow cilantro, flat-leaf (Italian |parsley) and curly (regular) parsley. | |I think the Italian parsley tastes pretty much like the |'regular' parsley, but milder, less strong - you could say |'a more delicate taste'. | |I certainly don't think it (Italian parsley) tastes anything |at all like cilantro. No way. | |But tastes are tricky, you know, and I'm convinced that what |*I* taste may not be the same as what *you* taste. Very |individual things, tastes.
And while we are on the subject, if cilanthro and parsley are two different species, has anyone done any genetic engineering yet to cross the two? Bypassing Darwin and Mendel, it must be possible to create a hybrid between these two species... ?
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On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 04:26:41 -0700, Matthew Montchalin

Cilantro and parsley are not only different *species* they are in different genuses.
Parsley is _Petroselinum crispum_ .
Cilantro is _Coriandrum sativum_ .
So they are not very closely related. They are in the same family: the _Apiaceae_ .
I can't offhand think of any particular reason why anyone would WANT a parsley/cilantro cross.
BTW, you can't bypass Darwin and Mendel...they didn't come up with wild surmises, but worked out and elucidated some of the laws of nature: how things actually work in the real world.
I suppose you could make a GMO cross: gentically-engineered cross - gene splicing. But again: why would you WANT to?
Pat
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Just because the species are in two different genera that doesn't necessarily mean the two genera are not closely related. There is such a thing as intergeneric hybrids. Intergeneric hybrids have been reported in the Apiaceae (Umbelliferae) and in the closely allied Araliaceae.
Don't know if it would be possible to cross the two species by cross pollination and get hybrid progeny. Fertility might possibly be restored by doubling the chromosomes?
In this modern era of nuclear manipulation and gene splicing, almost anything is possible. The question is whether going to all the effort and experimentation to do so would be worth all the expense and time needed.
wrote:

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On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Cereoid-UR12- wrote: |Just because the species are in two different genera that doesn't |necessarily mean the two genera are not closely related. There is |such a thing as intergeneric hybrids. Intergeneric hybrids have been |reported in the Apiaceae (Umbelliferae) and in the closely allied |Araliaceae.
Have these reports been published relatively recently? In the last five years or so?
|Don't know if it would be possible to cross the two species by cross |pollination and get hybrid progeny. Fertility might possibly be |restored by doubling the chromosomes?
There is nothing wrong with creating new plants that are healthier, hardier, and more beneficial than was the case with either of the parents before them.
|In this modern era of nuclear manipulation and gene splicing, almost |anything is possible. The question is whether going to all the effort |and experimentation to do so would be worth all the expense and time |needed.
Yes, I understand that time and expense figures into the effort of creating a viable hybrid.
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x Fatshedera (Araliaceae: Fatsia x Hedera) was described in 1923.
[Citation ex IPNI: Guillaumin, Journ. Soc. Nat. Hort. France, Ser. IV. xxiv. 524 (1923)]
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

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On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Cereoid-UR12- wrote: |Just because the species are in two different genera that doesn't |necessarily mean the two genera are not closely related. There is |such a thing as intergeneric hybrids. Intergeneric hybrids have been |reported in the Apiaceae (Umbelliferae) and in the closely allied |Araliaceae.
How many millions of years must have passed in order for the various genera in the family of Apiacea to have descended from a single genus?
I suppose it would be asking too much for a poster I could slap up on the wall, detailing the branches, but then again... How does a person generally go about judging how genetically distant any two genera are, let alone species?
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Matthew Montchalin wrote:

One attends a university, specializes in botany, and starts to study the branch one is interested in.
Henriette
--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed
  Click to see the full signature.
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