steel building house revisited

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Bob Morrison wrote:

Bob, how much experience do you have with SIPS? They look good in theory, but I've heard a few folks that had problems with them in roof applications. The scuttlebutt is that the top layer of OSB gets damp during humid periods followed by cooler weather. Since the underside of the OSB is effectively sealed by the foam, the moisture can only go back through the shingles from whence it came and hence problems with mold and rot.
I haven't seen this myself, but one of the professor in a recent graduate course I took is a structural engineer for a timber frame company and he said they haven't had good lunch with SIPS in roofs unless they fur the top and apply a second layer of sheathing to allow air circulation between the top layer of the SIP and the sheathing. Obviously, this requires installation of soffit and ridge vents.
Matt
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In a previous post Matt Whiting wrote...

Matt:
I haven't heard about any problems. Perhaps it is because the few projects I've been involved with had metal roofs, which tend to breathe a bit better than conventional roofing.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
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Bob Morrison wrote:

Yes, metal almost always has stiffening seams of some sort that provide a path for ventilation. My professor was talking about asphalt shingled roofs located in the Vermont/NH area mainly. I haven't heard of problems in my area, but then I've seen very few buildings put up using SIPS. Had I chosen timber frame rather than logs for my house, I would have used SIPS.
Matt
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I've heard SIPS mentioned before somewhere else. What are they? Pre made panels with foam and plywood? I do want a metal roof, but am open to siding and interior wall suggestions. I do want the log look.
I'm leaning way towards a crawl space. I like to access and being able to get under there to run whatever may need to be such as wires, pipes and even some storage. I have that here at my house in Fl, very uncommon in this area and have used it many times.
I was going to slab on grade then stamp and stain the concrete, call it done but I kept coming back to the crawl space access.
This project has been down sized a bunch since inception, the 12 foot ceilings may shrink.
I have a bunch to do before building, this and has nothing,
Matt Whiting wrote:

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I've heard SIPS mentioned before somewhere else. What are they? Pre made panels with foam and plywood? I do want a metal roof, but am open to siding and interior wall suggestions. I do want the log look.
I'm leaning way towards a crawl space. I like to access and being able to get under there to run whatever may need to be such as wires, pipes and even some storage. I have that here at my house in Fl, very uncommon in this area and have used it many times.
I was going to slab on grade then stamp and stain the concrete, call it done but I kept coming back to the crawl space access.
This project has been down sized a bunch since inception, the 12 foot ceilings may shrink.
I have a bunch to do before building, this and has nothing,
Matt Whiting wrote:

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That's what happens when you come home late from riding on a Friday night.
I was trying to say, This land has nothing on it so well, septic, power all have to be brought in. I am looking forward to renting a dozer to clear the homesite plus make some trails throught the woods! Never operated one before, yee haw! More Power!
Raider Bill wrote:

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That's what happens when you come home late from riding on a Friday night.
I was trying to say, This land has nothing on it so well, septic, power all have to be brought in. I am looking forward to renting a dozer to clear the homesite plus make some trails throught the woods! Never operated one before, yee haw! More Power!
Raider Bill wrote:

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That's what happens when you come home late from riding on a Friday night.
I was trying to say, This land has nothing on it so well, septic, power all have to be brought in. I am looking forward to renting a dozer to clear the homesite plus make some trails throught the woods! Never operated one before, yee haw! More Power!
Raider Bill wrote:

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Must have had my mouse clicker set on 3 shot burst
Raider Bill wrote:

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I checked out some sips, I want a metal roof, seems like they would kill a couple birds with one stone. If I had metal on the upside with insulation inthe middle do they have any that are faced with a log or tongue and groove facing?
Does anyone know of a guy that specilizes in planning and drawing a hybrid post and beam house complete to cut list and assembly plans? Did I mention cheap?
Raider Bill wrote:

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In a previous post Raider Bill wrote...

You could probably pre-install some sort of paneling that gives the look you want.

Post & beam construction that looks good is not cheap. If you want cheap, then build a conventional frame house. There is a reason that tract homes are built using conventional wood framing. Compared to other forms of construction it is inexpensive to put up.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
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Well cheap is a relevent term. I guess I'd ratherr put my $$$ into worthwhile parts of the building process. Today I thought, as long as I'm thinking of a 4' crawl space and a 3 course block wall [knee wall] why not go ahead and build a 10' ceiling garage under the house? My way of thinking is that I will have to build a shop sometime, about 30X40 min. if the house is already close to that I would be saving money by consoladating the garge house instead of building a 2.5 car attached then a shop detached. I do like the post and beam look. But still up in the air that's why the Hybrid seemed along my lines. I only want to do this once so I would rather do iut right this time. That was my mantra when I built this place. Everything was done right and to last. Too bad I will be elsewhere living to enjoy it thanks to the extreme cost of property insurance here in florida!
Bob Morrison wrote:

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In a previous post Raider Bill wrote...

Bill:
Paying a good designer (who will not be cheap) for a quality set of plans is the way to have a quality project. My mantra is that I try to save the cost of my fee in innovative design and selection of the right materials for the project.
As any good contractor will tell you, a good set of plans is worth a great deal of time and money. In my experience you don't get a good set of plans from a "cheap" designer.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
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Bob,
When I built my house in florida, [5200 sqft] I used a local guy who made thing very easy for me. Let's face it, those letters after you name are missing behind mine! When I say cheap I mean stick to basics, I would build a strong safe and effeciant house without frills. They can come later once the structure is dried in.
My local guy doesn't want to do this house for several reasons, one being he is too busy on large projects and the second, he says that post and beam is not his thing espessically since I asked him if he could supply a cut list.
I looked around and found this guy, http://www.timberframedesign.net/Index.html Does anyone know of him? Any suggestions?> What should I expect to pay for a designer/ arch.?
On another note, this has really gone past the steel house revisited thread, should I open up another one?
Thanks
Bill
Bob Morrison wrote:

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In a previous post Raider Bill wrote...

From his website he looks like he knows what he is doing. Don't be surprised if your local jurisdiction requires engineering calculations for this type of house.

Yes, I just did
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
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Actually, I checked with the county planner and building boss, He said that aside from a state mandated septic tank permit and a final elec. inspection when the power is connected there are no other inspections, permits, nothing. I gues it's a build what you want and take your chances type of County.
Here in Pinellas Co Florida, we have Inspectors, inspecting inspections, planning dept's , zoneing etc. I guess this freedom plus the mountains has helped prompt me to move half way back after 20 plus years in the sunshine/property insurance state.
My Idea is a post and beam center structure 24x40x12 wall height with 2 stick frame 12x40x 10 "leanto's" if you will on either side for bedrooms, and baths. A post and beam front porch with the same roof line as the lean to's will complete that floor. A full cellar/workshop below. I'm thinking a 10 foot ceiling height there.
For simplicity, I was considering, 8" posts with 2x6 stud walls external so the post and beams show through on ther inside 2x4 stud on the inside. I figure the 2x6 will give me more insulation.
This will go in the middle of 69 acres on top of a rolling hill.
I'm very open to suggestions about anything here. I have a bunch of things I did to my currant house such as dog doors in the wall, mud rooms, laundry next to masterbedrrom, shoe kicks etc.
Thanks,
Bill
Bob Morrison wrote:

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Wow I was surprised by the lack of creative thought of most of the people that responded.
I have thought of doing the same thing and have looked at using strawbales to create the non-load bearing walls. Great insulation and cheap and you could have your family help put it together after you hire one knowledgeble person to organize and teach you. Use an earthen plaster and perhaps a lime plaster finishing coat for durability and it would be good. You could use cob construction (earthen/mud walls) for interior walls as well although they should be judicially placed in regards to collecting solar energy as they would be a great thermal mass and not so great as insulation. If you are sceptical of cob walls you would be surprised on how you can plaster them and they look absolutely great.. of course there is some skill required in plastering but you could hire someone to help and teach you at the start.
I believe your idea for radiant floor heating is good for some of the individual bed rooms but use proper solar design principles to catch the solar energy to help heat the rest of the large rooms in your structure.
Building a house is a large undertaking and yes I do value engineering professionals to supply the needed knowledge to ensure your structure does not pose a hazard to your family or is going to be underdesigned for plumbing , electriciy or heating/cooling, BUT i believe that the wooden/drywall structures we live in today are far removed from what is natural for a man to provide shelter and comfort to his family. Buiding livable and safe structure is not rocket science. I believe we have given away far too much of our power of providing shelter for ourselves and family by having building codes that are too rigid and "professional" attitudes that only serve to protect the "status quo" and tends to support the banking, lawyer and insurance industries as well.
Peace, Roban
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Sorry I can't help the OP, I don't think. I've skimmed through the message thread, and all I see is wanting a cheap commercial building to try to live in & add to piece by piece. I too am thinking of building my first house in about a year, and came across this site and pretty much made up my mind I want one of these buildings. http://www.kodiaksteelhomes.com /
Maybe the OP can look into something like this, it has an open floor plan, a "dry-in" kit is reasonable about $60-75k for frame, roof, & siding, the largest I see is 3800sf.
Not to Hi-jack the tread, but maybe someone here can give me a ball park on what it would cost to finish a 3000sf 2 story steel house, from slab to drywall [Crestwood 3 on the site]. I all ready have a working well but would need a new septic system as well. Is $100K possible, not counting the framing, roofing & siding. (I live in central OK if geography makes pricing different). I'd like to do some work myself to save $, but figure it's have to save $500-1k to make it worth the extra time it would take me to finish vs. a professional crew.
Hope the site might help the OP, or atleast give an alternate direction to look at, and TIA for any input on my questions. Bryan

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Whew! I just found this place, you guys crack me up! Sounds likea meal with the inlaws.....
I'm in the process of designing this very same idea. My idea is to have a 50x100 di- vided in half with one side being liveing space and the other my shop. At this time condensation is my concern. I have 69 acres of woodland to use as material for a mock post and beam interionr to the living space 3-2, with metal or wood frame [depending] on cost inside walls. Sheet rock with tongue and groove will be the coverings. a second floor open loft would extend across the 50 span appromx 20 ft.
My footer will consist of poured columns where the red iron beams fall out and a continuous footer connecting with number 5 rebar.
Building in TN, have got estimates for the concrete work, with $5.00 a square foot being high. I will rent a track hoe and dig myself. Prices on erecting the metal building are anywhere from $2.75 to $4.00 a square foot. I really only need them to erect the red iron and maybe the roof panels.
Well drilling is $10.00 a foot and then $9.00 a foot for pipe. Bear in mind once you hit rock you don't need anymore pipe. Septic is $3000 for 1000 gallon model installed.
All plumbing, electical, inside framing, etc is DIY Everything else I can do myself with a couple helper/laborers to assist.
Bryan wrote:

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Ok, now that you guys got me rethinking my metal home/shop idea where do I go from here? If what everything I'm reading here is true. I need to come up with plan b and or C. I took a quick look at the monolithic cement dome homes that was suggested in a prior post. Does anyone have experiance with them? The plan was to build something that is cheap to build and operate, have shop room and warm and cozy or cool and cozy depending on season.
As far as radiant heating the floors, any good links about that?
snipped-for-privacy@fiainspectors.com wrote:

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