Construction of Concrete Water Storage Tank

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Hi Mark Actually I am not a college freshman, the fact is that I am not a civil engineer or anything like it. It's not a part of my job to do this kind of research, btu I have my own intentions doing it. If you know the answer to a question, it's your choice to tell it or not. But when you give such an answer to a question, it's just wasting yours and others time .
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In a previous post Ramin.Sh1 wrote...

Your "intentions" would help us understand why you want to know this information. Then again, you could talk to an engineer who is well versed in water tank construction methods.
Posting this kind of open ended question to a newsgroup without any reasons as to why is bound to get you flamed (as you found out).
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
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Ramin.Sh1 wrote:

not. <<<<<<
The etiquette of newsgroups is to give as much background information as possible so as to make answering as easy as possible. Poorly posed questions (or worse, continually changing questions / situations) are not well received.
Perhaps if you had revealed "your intentions", the replies you received might have been more useful
The reply that Mark posted might not be a waste of time......it is only a waste of time if you fail to learn from it.

late on his homework. Too little data, too many vagaries, looking others to present the solution, and so on.<<<<< Mark may have posted this in HIS reply but I can assure that many others had the same reaction, they chose not to post ANY reply,............ your posting style lost you the opportunity to learn from them
Actually if you learn from Mark's modest flame, you might in the future be able to get value from a newsgroup.
But even if you failed to learn anything from this thread perhaps others might.
cheers Bob
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Bobk207 :

I believe when you want to answer someone's question, you don't need to know his "intentions", you need to know his question. I think my question is clear and what I need is obvious: "the fastest method between different construction methods of such a tank". With a bit of logic you can understand that I want to know about different methods of cunstructing the tank in order to find out the fastest method. When you don't want or you are not able to answer somone's question, it's a complete waste of time while you know the meaning of his question but you just like to accuse him that your question is badly asked -instead of correctiong the question- , . Actually it's not only waste of time, it's a sick behaviour.
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Ramin.Sh1 wrote:

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree
you stated......
"I believe when you want to answer someone's question, you don't need to know his "intentions", you need to know his question. "
I disagree, in order to get a good answer to a complex situation one needs MORE information
"I think my question is clear and what I need is obvious"
Again I'll have to disagree...if your question was clear....you'd have an answer by now.
The people who frequent this group have MANY YEARS of experience....the fact that you're getting similar replies points in a certain direction
The fact that that you "don't get it" why people reading your question "don't get it", is rather illuminating & food for thought. :)
good luck
cheers Bob
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Bobk207 :

Thanks Bob for your illustrative answer, But all the replies I've got here are not similar, actually some people have answered my question (thank you all). It simply means that "they got it"...
At least 3 methods of constructing the tank are mentioned in this thread: 1) Wire Wound Prestressed Concrete 2) Stainless Steel 3) Glass Fused-to-Steel I think that Wire Wound Prestressed method should be a fast method proportional to its advantages. There may be faster and/or better methods, I'd be glad if you could tell me about them (instead of nagging about my unclear question & "intentions")
regards Ramin
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Don't forget I mentioned the plastic lined hole in the ground.
--
Steve Barker


"Ramin.Sh1" < snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com> wrote in message
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Ramin.Sh1 wrote:

Ramin-
I'm sorry you consider my comments nagging....too bad, you would learn a lot if you took them to heart, as you said you're not an engineer but you are dabbling in that realm
And getting the right answer depends on asking the right question.
btw you forgot to list my very fast to construct suggestion.....a shot creted reservoir with a floating liner
cheers Bob
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Bobk207 :

Okay Bob, I will consider what you've told me. I will make my next questions as clear as I can. However, I'm not a native English speaker. By the way, I am an enginner, just not a civil one. The method you have mentioned is the fastest method, I guess. But it will not solve my problem cause I need a tank.
regards Ramin
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Ramin.Sh1 wrote:

Ramin-
I could tell you were not a native English speaker but your English is very good (much better than MY second language).
I think that a fair amount of our disagreement on how to approach problem solving may be our different cultural point of views.
We Americans tend do be very straight forward & reveal a LOT of background information during the solution process. This method works very well for me on technical problems.
Other cultures (& I have worked with a few) do things differently. In my opinion these other techniques are much slower & do not (typically) find optimum solutions. Limiting information, limits the solution space.
but that's the way they do things, which, of course, is their right
By the way I am a mechanical engineer (design, analysis, 13 years in aerospace) who then spent 17 years in civil / structures research. I have years of design & project experience.
but when I go outside of my area of experience / education I'm just a novice.
cheers Bob
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Ramin.Sh1 wrote:

Elwood P. Dowd: Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this world, Elwood, you must be" - she always called me Elwood - "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.
R
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RicodJour wrote:

BTDT
it's much easier & much less stress to be pleasant........smart is a LOT of work. :)
cheers Bob
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Ramin.Sh1 wrote:

Ooops!
I missed the "stainless steel" option........SS for a 2.5 million gallon water tank.....I don't think that would really be very viable choice.
Oh, but don't remember reading if you required that the answers make any practical sense.
better questions get better answers :)
I'm sorry I couldn't you give a better answer...too many unknowns
cheers Bob
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umm ive done a tiny bit of research in this area
there are only 2 ways to have a decent cistern buy one = safe, fast and easy but you cant ship the dam things because they are HUGE
or make one with a food grade liner = pain in the
you can try all the concrete and coatings you want but that wont get you where you need to be and even dealing with a liner is old technology
the best way is to get a plastic tank that is made for drinking water they are expensive and you can get smaller ones at farm supply stores because farmers use them for stock you want a black abs one if it is exposed so bacteria wont grow
the reason i really dont suggest that you make your own there are some bad bacteria that are being found in these tanks studies are being done in parts of the usa not 3rd world countries finding that
just like the human papaloma virus is now found to cause cancer in women a lot of these things they are finding may cause serious illnesses and not just short term bowel problems.
so be careful
you will call and ask 40 pool centers and farm dealers trying to find a food grade liner and not one of them will have one clue about how to do this or get one.
the best way google cistern tank eventualy you will find there are a handful of gov sites and a handfull of dealers
drop $5000 on a 10000gal tank with a pump that can be partialy burried and build a kneewall out of cement block with a lid over it to protect it from light and damage
or better yet get two 5000gal tanks one for drinking and a non food grade one for toilets and have a way to connect them in last resort
and keep the dam thing clean so you dont endup with something bad in 20 years
: )

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snipped-for-privacy@anonamoo.com :

Thank you, I will consider this method. I haven't found any companies doing such projects with this method. I would be pleased if you could introduce any of of them (if you know any company working this way).
regards ramin
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In a previous post Ramin.Sh1 wrote...

I very much doubt that you will find a 10,000-20,000 cubic meter tank constructed in this fashion.
You asked for the fastest method. One of the fastest (as mentioned by others) is to dig a hole and line it with with Hypalon or similar product. This is a common, fast and inexpensive method to build large volume water storage. You immediately rejected this advice because it didn't give the answer you wanted based on some criteria unknown to us.
If the solution must be a tank, then there is only steel or concrete. Neither method will be "fast". As I said earlier, a project of this size will take a least a year to construct. Just the infrastructure to fill and drain the tank is a major undertaking.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
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Bob Morrison wrote:

Yes I believe that you are right.

As I mentioned before, I think this method may not be a healthy way to store water, as this tank is to be used to store drinkable water.

Yes, I think the solution should be a tank (as I mentioned in my original question). And you are right again, the project may take some time. But if the fastest method to construct a project this size takes years to construct, there is no other way. That's not my problem that the project may take to long, I just need to find the methods. Regards Ramin
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In a previous post Ramin.Sh1 wrote...

Many jurisdictions here in the US use in the ground reservoirs to store drinking water. Some have covers and some don't. The City of Seattle is currently undertaking to cover these reservoirs and turn the covers into playgrounds and parks.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
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Call these people they are nice and know their stuff http://www.watertanks.com /
This lady built one above ground many years ago http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~liz/water.html
I dont suggest this method because of health problems but lots of people have these things
other then plastic there are companies that build stainless steel tanks on your site. they are above ground units
also the studies I have read say do not rely on UV filters alone. They can not be your only purification method because they will fail to work when the bulbs need to be changed and you cant tell the bulb is about to fail
its like a bulb in your house lamp BUT UV needs to work 100% not like your house light that can slowly get dim and still provide light to read so you wont change it untill it fails to turn on. does that make sence heheh :o)
this means you need chemical, uv and mechanical filters
cleaning water in a small system is harder then in larger city size systems because the city just dumps chlorine in untill everything is dead and the CL keeps on working as it flows down your street to your house
in a small system you will have less then 100 feet to make sure everything is clean and cl takes time to work

Thank you, I will consider this method. I haven't found any companies doing such projects with this method. I would be pleased if you could introduce any of of them (if you know any company working this way).
regards ramin
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Ramin, Albeit I've stayed away from this thread, I just can't take anymore of your impertanance. As Bob states;
I very much doubt that you will find a 10,000-20,000 cubic meter tank constructed in this fashion.
Gotta agree there...........................
You asked for the fastest method. One of the fastest (as mentioned by others) is to dig a hole and line it with with Hypalon or similar product. This is a common, fast and inexpensive method to build large volume water storage. You immediately rejected this advice because it didn't give the answer you wanted based on some criteria unknown to us.
Gotta agree there as well..........................
If the solution must be a tank, then there is only steel or concrete. Neither method will be "fast". As I said earlier, a project of this size will take a least a year to construct. Just the infrastructure to fill and drain the tank is a major undertaking.
Well Bob fell (sorta) on his butt here, "If the solution must be a tank," because the only obvious solution is a tank. I suppose you could round up a couple of million 1 gallon jugs & plumb them......har~har.....However, Bobs statement of, "a project of this size will take a least a year to construct. Just the infrastructure to fill and drain the tank is a major undertaking." is a fairly qualified statement.
It would seem you're taking an adversarial attitude in this matter instead of SERIOUSLY LOOKING at the advice given here. Unless you believe Captain Kirk & Scotty are going to beam down here and make you some transparent aluminum panels that can hold whales like in the movies.
I know of a few people/companies that would be more then willing to build a tank this size out of steel. Prices start @ $200.00/hr per man/hr plus all expenses. Satisfaction guaranteed............... In essence get a damn hint here and quit bitchin. Ie: Either shit or get off the Pot!
Dan
:<BR>&gt; umm<BR>&gt; ive done a tiny bit of research in this area<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; there are only 2 ways to have a decent cistern<BR>&gt; buy one = safe, fast and easy<BR>&gt; but you cant ship the dam things because they are HUGE<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; or make one with a food grade liner = pain in the<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; you can try all the concrete and coatings you want but that wont<BR>&gt; get you where you need to be<BR>&gt; and even dealing with a liner is old = technology<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; the best way is to get a plastic tank that is made for drinking water<BR>&gt; they are expensive and you can get smaller ones at farm supply<BR>&gt; stores because farmers use them for stock<BR>&gt; you want a black abs one if it is exposed so bacteria wont grow<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; the reason i really dont suggest that you make your own<BR>&gt; there are some bad bacteria that are being found in these tanks<BR>&gt; studies are being done in parts of the usa not 3rd world countries<BR>&gt; finding that<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; just like the human papaloma virus is now found to cause cancer<BR>&gt; in women a lot of these things they are finding may cause serious<BR>&gt; illnesses and not just short term bowel problems.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; so be careful<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; you will call and ask 40 pool centers and farm dealers<BR>&gt; trying to find a food grade liner and not one of them will<BR>&gt; have one clue about how to do this or get one.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; the best way<BR>&gt; google cistern tank<BR>&gt; eventualy you will find there are a handful of gov sites<BR>&gt; and a handfull of dealers<BR><BR><BR>Thank you, I will consider this method.&nbsp; I haven't found any companies<BR>doing such projects with this method. I would be pleased if you could<BR>introduce any of of them (if you know any company working this way).<BR><BR>regards<BR>ramin<BR></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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