Right to have armaments was Re: The value of shopping local

wrote:

Since Congress was given the power to issue letters of marque and reprisal which enabled private vessels to capture other ships, it clearly implies that people were allowed to have fairly serious armament. We know from history there were United States based privateers. Incidently, the letters of marque clause predates the 10 amendments.

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Yup.
It's written down because that is supposed to keep things consistent. It doesn't mean that the writing-down is the "grantor", so to speak. WHat it is, is keeping a record of what is and is not agreed upon as being law, so that the Law can be applied consistently.
So, if people agree that murder is against the law, and agree that to be murder, the killing has to be pre-meditated and done deliberately (i.e., not an accident), it's just common sense to write it down and maintain it as an official document, so that it won't be forgotten or mixed-up.
I think mot people forget that there is a difference between saying "Constitutionally guaranteed rights" and "Constitutionally granted rights" - the latter is not the correct statement. And even the "guarantee" part relies upon people not only recording the law, but respecting it.
In essence, it is a contract outlining the agreement between the People, and those elected to government and what *they* (the gov.t) cannot do. But this has gotten twisted up and turned around so that now, people mistakenly think that the Cnstitution is the *origin* of rights and that it delineates what *the People* cannot do.
So, when it says that the people have a right to bear arms, what it is actually saying is that the governemnt cannot legitimately take armaments away from the People. Of course, there is a problem now because back then, "arms" meant pretty much flintlockl rifles and pistols, whereas today, we have Mac-10's and AK-47's and so on, so it *might* be legitimate to argue that automatic weapons are not exempt from giv.t seizure, but it *cannot* be legitimate that the gov.t can legitimately keep *all* arms out of the hands of the People.
But that is the point, that difference between the Constitution as a contract defining, and often limiting, the actions of the goverenment; and the mistaken idea that the Constitution is the source of rights and therefore can also be used to remove rights from the People.

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wrote:

As I said in another posting the United States Constitution has among the powers of Congress the right to grant letters of marque and reprisal. This was a license for a ship owner to go out and capture enemy vessels. This in turn meant that the ship owner was assumed to have some fairly serious armament (cannons, etc.). In short it was assumed one could own a war ship, maybe even the equivalent of a guided missile cruiser. Chuck Stevens who posted on comp.lang.cobol pointed this out in one of the off topic postings.

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wrote:

If there was a time-limit on those letters, specifying a given situation and/or time frame, it's not reasonable to assume it means that private citizens *today* should own, for ex., unlicensed hand granades. I don't muind the idea of gun licensing, *IF* it is used to insure that people have some level of training before buying a gun.
In any event, in the end, the vital point is the degree to which people are reasonable, or the degree to which they're ruled by personal emotions and personal demons and a desire to dominate others. The ideal behind "the rule of law" is that one maniac can't just up and subjugate his neighbors simply because he has a bigger gun so to speak.
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wrote:snip

OK. As the group's now self-appointed malaprop-cop, I'm righting you up for that bovine remark ; )
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