Why is it that.....

[nailshooter41]

It will be interesting to see how well Festool will continue to do with their marketing/supply/pricing policies. I would imagine they will be immutable until their market share sags. Then the beanie weenies won't be able to keep themselves away from "fixing" it.

Personally, in my rose colored world, I would like to think that the Festool group is keeping their pricing intact so that they can keep their product line intact and their quality up. (Toldja... rosy.... mmmmmm)

I remember all the manufacturer's beginnings in the price wars by making a lower end product to compete and swallow as much market as possble. I remember when Rockwell first made their plastic cased tools; when Porter Cable (separate at that time) responded with their plastic crap. And the same with all of them. To me (I am treading as lightly as possible here as I know how proud many are of their tools - no offense intended) most of today's tools are little more than adequate, if that. I think all the crappy tools started with the manufacturing companies getting involved in price wars intstead of focusing on product. With that in mind, it seemed like the companies were daring each other to come out with worse and worse quality tools. Most of the absolute trash has disappeared, but most of the premier tools aren't a spot on the ass of the ones I was using 30 - 35 years ago. We kept them greased, put in new bearings and switches every once and while and we were set.

I guess the offsetting factor is that you can buy an Milwaukee hole shooter for the same price I bought my first one for in 1975. Later that year I ditched my Craftsman circular saw and purchased a Rockwell

315 with metal box, rip guide and a tube of grease for $125. So from that standpoint, that is good. Tools are plentiful and their prices haven't even kept up with inflation.

Maybe, just maybe, Festool want to establish themselves in America (long established in Europe) as a quality tool manufacturer. In order to do that, you have to make a good tool, provide quality service after the sale, and keep up with the needs of your target audience. I am wondering if they are going to go the Lie-Nieson (sp?) route, or the Bridge City tool route and just make their tools available as they see fit in order to keep the quality high. Hope so. All that takes money, and maybe if they make enough they will keep ploughing it back into the company and products. Who knows...

Robert

[Lew Hodgett]

The Germans march to their own drummer.

We have represented a German Company for many years and it is sometimes a very interesting challenge.

They make excellent equipment, but some of their business decisions leave me shaking my head sometimes.

Believe it or not, they sometimes have difficulty understanding that in the USA, we operate simultaneously across 3 time zones for a large portion of the business day.

It is quite normal to ship something from a warehouse on the East coast by 3:00PM and have it on the job site on the West coast at the start of business the following morning.

That is something that they sometimes have difficulty getting their arms around.

We just work at a much faster pace in the USA than tey do in much of the rest of the world.

Lew

[B A R R Y]

You can SELL it for whatever you want. You just can't advertise the lower price. The electronics industry often puts "CALL" for a price listing.

Some Garmin GPS dealers have websites that won't display the sale price until you put it in the cart, others have email autoresponders.

Wanna' see manufacturers who are tough on discounters? Look into Apple Computer or Bose. I don't think woodworking vendors have the volume to go through the gyrations electronics vendors have to make the games worthwhile, so they simply comply.

[Swingman]

Often success can be a bad thing.

Many a small record company has folded after a regional hit because they had to borrow the money to satisfy the demand for the product, and being small, the record distributors have them last on the list to get paid from store sales, after the big boys get theirs ... generally months after the loan is due and the interest has piled up.

Exact same thing for a small oil company/operator. Everyone wants to drill and complete an oil/gas well but the minute you do is when the expensive problems start ... from legal and environmental, to marketing.

IOW, sometimes all you get out of a "successful" business venture is bragging rights. DAMHIKT.

[Locutus]

companies from conluding to fix prices.

This is not true at all. Mfgs/Distributors can refuse to sell to a company for many reasons, image, the companies method of doing business, past company history, etc. I have personally experienced this in my business, since in my industry, there are some products not made for our industry that actually work quite well, however the mfg refused to sell to us because they did not want their products associated with our industry (firearms/military).

[tommyboy]

OK, I'm somewhat more clear as to the MAP thing. Now on to the final part. How is it that a product as popular as the Akeda jig and accessories are sold exclusively by a single retailer? It may be my naivete but I'm thinking that if I was a woodworking type retailer I'd really want to carry that product. How did Woodcraft get to be the 'chosen one'? Might they have financial interest in Akeda beyond that of a retailer?

[Patriarch]

tommyboy wrote in news:pvumk2db6eegunlsc5c4brh9kf3s6jg2h5@

4ax.com:

For a while, the Akeda was sold at woodworking shows as well, and at a pretty good price, relative to Woodcraft. In the consolidation of Delta/Porter-Cable, that group of traveling gypsies got shut down.

Akeda is a pretty small company that is doing well to have gotten their product to market, and to continue to sell the tool, in spite of the challenges they have faced. I have one of their jigs, and think it a pretty good piece of work.

But they are just trying to get/keep going in a competitive space. I wouldn't look for conspiracies.

Patriarch

[Nova]

Akeda's web site lists their jigs as being available at:

Austin Hardwoods Highland Hardware Rockler Woodsmith The Woodworking Shows

It doesn't even mention Woodcraft.

[tommyboy]

info as to where their product can be purchased.

[B A R R Y]

Try to buy one. This past summer,I tried all but the shows and Austin Hardwoods. Woodcraft at least listed it as out of stock. My luck finding an Akeda actually drove me to the point of posting a question here on the 'wreck inquiring if the product was still available. A friendly Woodcraft employee answered my post, but by that time I had already purchased a Leigh from Highland.

I was really interested in the Akeda, but my the search set off my "future orphan tool" alert, tipping me into the D4R.

[Tim Taylor]

FWIW, I really like my Akeda. I do remember not so long ago, they had a fire or explosion or something to that effect and production was shut down for quite some time. Could be that's why you didn't find one.

[B A R R Y]

I've not heard of anyone who doesn't, which is what drove my interest. It always fares well in reviews, too.

You'd think they'd at least put that on their web site.

[Tim Taylor]

Good point! I never thought about that. One of the guys at my local Woodcraft told me about it.

[Nova]

The fire was in the early part of 2004. See an August 2004 Canadian Woodworker article referring to the fire. It's about half way down the page under "New Products". :

[Tim Taylor]

Man, has it been that long? It don't seem like 2 years ago, almost 3, but I guess it was.

[Patriarch]

"Tim Taylor" wrote in news:4dydnf3oHacRP9bYnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

The fire was in a neighboring company in their building, and caused THEM problems in the fighting of the fire, and restoration of the services to the building. But that's been 2 -3 years ago. They've been back in business since then. They sent me a part I needed, no charge, 18 months ago, and were 'back to normal' then, supposedly.

I saw them at the woodshow at least a year ago...

Patriarch

[bf]

Because, let's say for example that Woodcraft sells Festool at 10% less than everyone else. That puts pressure on all the other retailers to lower their price as well, which means lower margins for them. Means the other retailers are less happy and might cease ordering Festool products.

The fixed pricing means that everyone is fat and happy. The consumer is forced to pay a premium if he really wants it.

Also, part of the whole appeal of high end stuff like Festool is partially a status symbol.. knowing that you have "the best". If Festool were priced at the Ryobi level, it wouldn't be as cool or sexy to have one. Just like if a Mercedes cost as much as a Chevy, some potential buyers wouldn't think the Mercedes was as good (even if the quality was identical).

[Robatoy]

On Nov 2, 4:11 pm, tommyboy wrote:

Caveat: Canada issues. In my business, I spent a lot of time, over 20 years, and money developing the market in this area. If my main supplier decided to allow another fabricator to start competing with me, in my area, I would have a few choices. a) I could drop the bottom out my price so that the upstart would have to do the same, but without the advantages that I have. He'd be short lived. b) I could drop that supplier completely and let them have the new guy allll to themselves whilst (there is that word again) I start focussing on highlighting another one of my suppliers. One thing I cannot do, legally, is to start selling below my cost. That would be considered an unfair business practice. None of my suppliers will ever dictate my retail prices. But... at some annual get-togethers, we chat amongst the fabricators and discuss what the market is bearing. The Combines Investigation Act dictates clearly what a manufacture/distributor can do in terms of price-fixing. Henceforth (do you believe THAT word?) Festool is nowhere to be found in Canada. I, however, have decided that Festool's prices are commensurate with the performance their tools deliver. therefore, I have no objection to paying their prices. Fein has a similar marketing strategy as Festool, but a dealer would have to be nuts not to ask full-pop for their tools. They can get it, so why not? Fein does have Canadian representation. Go figgur. Maybe Festool is afraid of Fein? Dunno. Maybe they are in Cahoots? (Cahoots, Alberta... a small town....never mind......)

r----> who wants to know, that if price fixing is illegal why ALL the farking gas stations change prices at the same farking time? Huh? Huh?

[Robatoy]

On Nov 3, 5:27 pm, "bf" wrote: [snipped for brevity]

In many cases with other brands/products you would be correct. In most of Festool's comparisons, you'd be dead wrong. I can't speak for the entire Festool product line, but the pieces I own are simply superb. I'm not saying that because I own them, I own them because they are superior. Same thing goes for Fein. A quality tools costs money. Period.

Mercedes has made some really shitty cars in their day. DAHIKT

Nice troll, btw.

r

[B A R R Y]

I own NO Festools.

I used a Festool jigsaw a few weeks back, which was a replacement for a 20 year old Bosch. I'd buy it in a minute if I needed to replace my Bosch.

It's more than status...