I want to lay down 3/4" hardwood floor in my livingroom, after removing the 5/8" particle board underlayment which was used for carpeting, Im left with 1/2" plywood subfloor.
My question, Is the 1/2" plywood subfloor thick enough to lay the 3/4" wood floor on?
The floor will run in the opposite direction of the joists for strengh.
Advice appreciated, thanks in advance.
Gil
Gil,
Are you sure you only have a 1/2" subfloor? That just seems too thin - the floors would give when you walk on them. Plus, I wonder if it meets building code.
To answer your question, I would recommend putting down another layer of plywood - you must have a smooth surface with no hills and valleys and gaps for the hardwood to sit on. Most underlay will require at least a layer of luan on top. In your case, I'm thinking you'll need a 1/2" luan or other similar smooth surface layer.
I did my kitchen floor a few years ago. I had a 3/4" tongue and groove underlay that was pretty rough. I put 1/4" luan on top of that, then put 6 mil poly over that as a vapor barrier. Then the 3/4" solid hardwood.
When you put the hardwood down, don't scrimp on the installation. Rent one of those big hoss pneumatic staplers. It comes with a big mallet to knock the boards tight and set the staple. Whack the crap out of the stapler with that mallet. I have 3 or 4 places where I didn't get the boards tight because I wasn't paying attention and hit it too lightly. It's not real noticeable except during those real dry winter days.
Bob
Bob, thanks for the advice.
It is 1/2" subflooring. I spoke with an installer today, his logic was... "if there was 5/8" particle board underlayment on top of the
1/2" subfloor, the 3/4" hardwood T&G on top of the 1/2" subfloor will be even stronger than before and you even gain an extra 1/8 of an inch", but I still like to hear oppinions from others that have done the job.No doubt the thicker the subflooring, the better, but I dont want to overkill if I dont have to.
I did what you describe using a Portanailer which pounds in big nasty barbed nails. The half-inch plywood wasn't thick enough to hold the nails. I was nailing three-quarter inch thick oak strips. This was in a kitchen with a lot of foot traffic. The flooring became loose in places after about six months, so I pulled it up and put down another layer of half-inch plywood. This was really truly a pain in the ass. Put something more substantial under that hardwood. You can go to
good luck das
Das...I forgot to mention the installer i spoke with recommended nailing through the joists when possible over the 1/2".
Im just trying to get the most information I can before getting started, and I have noticed in all cases at least 3/4" subfloor is recommended.
Thanks for the info,
Gil
Jim B.
there are a few grades. Length is part of the grade. If you install a lot of short length boards then the 1/2" is going to be a light. If you are nailing over trusses the floor may be more even than nailing over joists. Especially if the joists have a lot of crown. I recall years ago th ebuilders did 1/2" plywood all over the house and the oak went over that. The carpet areas, the vinyl and tile floors were doubled up. When I did my floors I was aware of at least three grades. Select, common and cabin. Select is supposed to be pretty knot free which it was. The other grades have more knots and maybe had more short pieces. It appears that my recollection of cabin grade may be left over from Color Tile days where the parquet floors had a cabin grade
Good advice, but watch out for the nails holding the plywood to the joists.
Barry
If I'm correct in the old days floors were built with 1/2 inch running one way and 5/8 inch on top of that in the oppisite direction. Now days everything is 3/4 inch t&g. Like everybody else here, my advice is to go with another layer of at least 5/8 inch ply and run the long side oppsite of the 1/2 inch if possible. Also, you may want to consider using a porta nailer manual nailer. Having to manually hit the plunger a couple of times not only sets the nails but does a nice job of tightening up the joints. Good Luck.
BG
I've installed oak flooring with a manual floor nailer, but much prefer an air driven one. Another useful tip mentioned earlier by other responder is the quality of the flooring. I am not sure if wood is graded solely on its appearance, but also for true and square of the planking. While my pre-finished cheap stuff did not have many knots, a lot of pieces in the package were warped or bowed. For a good work out, try forcing curved short lengths of oak planking onto the tongues the corresponding strips already nailed to the floor. One quickly realizes just how rigid 3/4" oak planking can be. In short, be sure that the planking is reasonably straight and level or you will wish that you'd never begun the project. Another concern, that is hard avoid when buying cartons of pre-finished wood, is getting packages consisting of just short lengths of flooring. Sometimes a package will contain nothing but cutoffs that are all neatly stacked in the box by the manufacturer. Granted a few short pieces are fine, but boxes full make for a choppy looking floor.
"B a r r y" wrote in message news:46a6e.16$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
How much force is needed to use a porta manual nailer? Think it could be used from a sitting position? (e.g.. a wheelchair) From a sitting position, it would be all arm motion hitting the nailer without any body motion to add to the force hitting the nailer.
From my experience (used one twice), you pretty much have to operate the manual nailer from a bent over position while standing. One hand is used to hold the nailer against the tongue (by way of an extended handle at the top of the nailer) and the other hand, of course, is needed to really swing the mallet. I suspect that this would be difficult from a seated position and the wheelchair frame could get in the way. However, this might be possible if one were to use an air driven nailer because less force is involved with the mallet hand. In either case, one would need an assistant in order to get each plank fitted tightly over the tongue of a corresponding plank.
Actually, in the old days, they didn't bother putting subfloor under T&G flooring at all a lot of the time. The last house I lived in had T&G YP upstairs & handhewn beams supporting it that were exposed. The big problem we faced was dust sifting down. It was a mess, but solid. All lengths ended on a joist, but since they were logs, you had 6 - 8".
It's been a while since I've done any flooring, but if it were me, I'd make my decision based on the flooring. I'd want the flooring to all end on a joist. If you're doing oak, you tend to get random lengths & ending them on a joist is going to be impossible. You used to be able to get Yellow Pine in full lengths & that would be possible to end on joists & it's strong enough. Ditto with cherry.
Jim
The house I grew up in had T&G with no subfloor. This was in Florida, and it was one of those houses that's up on brick posts with a crawlspace under, not a concrete foundation like you find in New England and other places where the water table can be counted on to be lower than the ground.
My Dad got the bright idea to put down some vinyl flooring in the front entryway. The book he got said to stick it down but it seemed to be OK at first and he decided not to. Then the first northeaster of the season hit and the vinyl blew about four feet up into the air on the wind coming through the cracks in the boards. He stuck it down after that.
He never did quite grasp the concept of "infiltration loss" though.
Air powered flooring nailers aren't much different. The main difference is the hammer force. The air unit still needs a decent shot, as the striking motion helps set the board. Air helps the nail drive be more consistent.
I have a Porta-nails air unit and wouldn't trade it for the world.
Barry
It's been a while since I've done any flooring, but if it were me, I'd make my decision based on the flooring. I'd want the flooring to all end on a joist. If you're doing oak, you tend to get random lengths & ending them on a joist is going to be impossible. You used to be able to get Yellow Pine in full lengths & that would be possible to end on joists & it's strong enough. Ditto with cherry
The toungues, grooves, and subfloor work together to spread out the weight.
Barry
Re-floor with 1 1/8" thick, and 4' x 8' wide Sturdy Floor. This is a tongue and groove wood product that prevents squeakin. You can find it at your local building supply. I used it 15 years ago and still no squeaks. 8500 sq' two story full basement house with 6 kids running and jumping all the time.
Jack
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