Re: Glue vs. No Glue

[Nehmo Sergheyev]

- Steven -

I have a trim carpenter who does excellent work, but I am finding it > impossible to make him use glue when building my cabinets. All of our > cabinets are custom built from my layout. I spec all of the materials and > how I want them fabricated, including gluing all of the pieces

together.

Yesterday, the face frame was loose on a cabinet he was installing, so I > pulled on it and it came off (not glued, only four finish nails). After a > very heated argument (he said that if pulled on, it would have come off even > it was glued) we debated if glue was even necessary. I say it is. He says > no. I realize I am paying the bill, so what I say goes (or he goes), but am > I missing something? Is it now an industry standard to rely on smooth > finish nails to hold cabinets together? What's the opinion of this group? - Nehmo -

In interior applications I've pretty much stopped using finishing nails and I've switched to small head square-drive trim screws. I don't necessarily use this brand, but here's a pic of some:

brand keep one screwgun with a drill bit in it to predrill and another with the square-drive bit to do the driving.

In your particular application of a faceplate on a cabinet, without more detail I can't say if I would have used glue or not. But I wouldn't have just used finishing nails and if the customer had specified glue, I certainly would have used it.

You can get more replies to your technical question in news:rec.woodworking . I crossposted.

[Mike Hide]

Well I would say the exact opposite, taking the time and effort to glue the cabinetry will make it stronger and you will end up in the end with a better quality cabinet.....mjh

-- mike hide

I keep one screwgun with a drill bit in it to predrill and another with

[Herman Family]

I would go with the glue for a few reasons:

1. The customer specified it
2. I don't have to hide the nails
3. It looks better
4. It can be stronger

Unfortunately:

1. Glue tends to be permanent, repairs are hard or impossible
2. It requires clamping, which might include nails
3. It takes a bit of time to apply and cure
4. If it isn't wiped off properly, the subsequent finish doesn't go on right.

On the balance, I would usually rather use glue than nails for my work, but I'm just a weekend woodworker.

Michael

I keep one screwgun with a drill bit in it to predrill and another with

[Al Reid]

I would agree with your assessment. I just completed two(2) nightstands using face frame construction. The FF was attached with glue and biscuits. It's not going anywhere, solid as a rock.

Al

> I keep one screwgun with a drill bit in it to predrill and another with

[Morgans]

Not only should it have glue, but it should also have another form of mechanical fasteners, other than nails. Some like biscits, I prefer dado and rabbits to A) increase glue surface area and B) control dimensions. I've done both. With the dado and rabbits, or biscits, with good clamping, no or very few nails are needed.

-- Jim in NC

[JackD]

What do you do with the rabbits? With biscuits and rabbits you could have a decent meal, but I don't know how the rabbit will help with your cabinets.

-Jack

[Morgans]

LOL!!!

I put a dado in the styles, and a rabbit on the side of the cabinet. 1/4" reveal when finished, so put a 3/8" dado starting 5/8" in from the outside edge of the style. 3/8" rabbit on the outside of the side.

-- Jim in NC

[JackD]

I think you are talking about rabbets. Not rabbits (hopping furry animals) or ribbits (the noise of another hopping animal)..

-Jack

[Kotch]

Nehmo, for one to xpost an answer, they've been sniffing to much glue! Put the lid back on and clear your nostrils!

[Morgans]

"Morgans" wrote >

Oh, I forgot to say, a 3/8" dado, 3/8" in from the edge on the rails, 3/8" rabbit on the top and bottoms.

-- Jim in NC

[Morgans]

If you insist. I am a notoreously lossey speler, and I was two lacey to get up and get a dictionary!

-- Jim in NC

[Ron Magen]

I am in the process of completing two more Mahogany, Veteran's Flag Cases. I am using some Marine Bronze screws as combined fasteners and decorative accents.

Due to the 'proper' size of the screw heads, they are #6 x 1 inch. Therefore, I pre-drill and 'chamfer' holes on the mating faces. Then carefully 'paint' TiteBond II on the 'inner' edges of the face frame mating surfaces . . . Whatever tiny bits of squeeze-out that occurs, are easily removed with a scraper before sanding, filling, and varnishing.

It really doesn't seem like that much more work; just part of the normal requirement for a the type of quality you want associated with YOUR name. Most of it is simply exhibiting patience while the glue dries over night.

Either way, the time to properly lay on 6 coats of varnish {with a 24-hour 'cure' period between coats}, will take more actual *time* than the entire building process !!

Regards, Ron Magen Backyard Boatshop