Question fow wood shop teachers

[Charlie Self]

Silvan notes:

Check the pay. Blacksburg may surprise us both. You seem to be in a spot where a job choice is soon to be inevitable. To offer unasked for advice, consider ALL the costs involved. Most VA teaching jobs require you to pay part of your health insurance, but it amounts, I think, to about $250 monthly and will cover the whole family. Depends on the deductible, as you know, in part. Remember that about 8-9 weeks of the mid-year is available to knock together projects to sell the rest of the year, too. That MIGHT replace some of the income. Hell, maybe you could drive a truck in the summer!

Teaching has its hazards and stresses. It has its rewards. Pay is rising, though not as rapidly as it needs to if we're going to replace a half-competent corps of teachers with a full group of good teachers (aznd keep them).

If you're not (both you and your wife) paying out as much for insurance, you're not eating on the road daily, you're not subject to the dangers of icy weather (when schools are closed), whenyou no longer face the stresses of driving an articulated box on wheels, think about how much more you might enjoy life.

See what the salary is, what the steps are, how seriously they're going to be on your ass to get a master's, or 30 hours beyond, etc.

Then decide. I wish you luck.

Charlie Self "Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to." Mark Twain

[Charlie Self]

Swingman responds:

Damn. I remember that now. And it didn't work too well.

Charlie Self "Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to." Mark Twain

[Glen]

The shop in my school, the one I would take over, is impressive. Nothing in the shop is older than 14 years (the school opened in 1991). The TS is Powermatic, one of the scrollsaws is a Hegner the others are Deltas, as are almost all of the other machines.

As to pay, I would not go down, except that I would lose my dep't chair supplement, bringing me to about $75g (teaching 5 periods a day). The current teacher teaches an extra period per day bringing him up to about $90g. Glen

[George]

What a load of fertilizer.

Paying more doesn't get you more, especially in people. The problem is actually the opposite - people who view teaching as a calling, and would work for a wage sufficient to support a single (with summer work) or supplement a marriage, are turned off by the wage-grubbers and union thugs demanding more and more money. When you motivate with money, you get people whose only motivation is more money.

Unfortunately, teachers as a group also have less education, lower SAT/ACT scores, and less respect for education than other groups. Even when the contract _guarantees_ a substantial pay raise for putting in the time for a masters, few get one. I don't even want to comment on the content of those "teacher" courses. I took academic.

[Swingman]

Lighten up, George ... your sanctimonious preaching fits the day, but not the situation.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

The question is not if, but when, to change jobs. Sounds like the company is slowly going into the dumpster. Do you bail out now or wait until they die a slow agonizing death? In that same time period I had a couple of years with no increase, but nothing was taken away. Every company has a bad year but when the slide for five straight, it is time to take a hard look around.

[phildcrowNOSPAM]

college, I

I would like to speak up here. My grandmother, mother, aunt and sister are all educators; my grandfather, cousin and uncles are/were bus drivers and my dad sat on our parish school board for a number of years, so I've been on "the other side" of education pretty much my whole life.

I think that teachers do okay money-wise, and here's why:

1. GOOD retirement plan
2. Good, relatively inexpensive benefit package
3. No nights, holidays, weekends, etc.
4. Less work. Teachers work as hard, they just don't work as often. Assuming a 40-hour work week, a teacher works 1440 hours a year, versus

2000 hours (36 weeks versus 50) for a "regular" job.

I'm not saying that teachers make enough money. If we want well-educated kids, we need well-paid teachers. I am, however saying that the pay per hour for school teachers isn't as abysmally low as it seems when looking at it from a yearly salary perspective.

Like Charlie Self pointed out earlier, if Silvan (or Glen, for that matter to make up for his loss of Dept Head pay) wants to, there are plenty of summer jobs available. The field that comes to mind immediately is construction. The pay per hour is probably going to be less than than teaching, but it is after all a summer job. If you're not afraid to sweat and I do mean SWEAT), mason tenders are ALWAYS in short supply, and the pay is decent. Another option less hard on the body is carpentry. If you can lay out and build a chess board, you can frame a house. It takes a while to learn.... I digress.

To Glen, I say go for it. You obviously have the tools to be an educator, so what's the difference, conceptually, between teaching science and teaching shop? The mechanics may differ, but a shop setting (I would imagine) would be a bit like a lab setting in a science class.

Sorry if I stepped on any teachers' toes.

-Phil Crow

[Ba r r y]

Maybe.

Some work as many or more hours as any other job. Homework needs to be corrected, planning needs to be done, etc... Summers are spent learning the new fashionable curriculum of the year, selected by politicians. I know some teachers that seem to live at the job.

Others don't, like my gym teacher neighbor.

Be careful with generalizations.

Barry

[phildcrowNOSPAM]

Touche.

Admittedly, my mom has been in administration for quite a few years, and most of her stories are about teachers like your neighbor. This is exacerbated by the fact that she's one of the people who go the extra mile. I further acknowledge that the life of the teacher has gotten increasingly difficult, and my own mother said to me that she herself would not go into education today. But don't let that stop you, guys!

-Phil Crow

[Mike H.]

My mom is a teacher, and my wife used to teach before she realized _it wasn't worth it_, and my cousin is a teacher. But as a disclaimer, it's still just anecdotal evidence from the both of us.

For the most part, I'll agree.

I'll go along with that one, too.

This one seems like a dream, eh?

Here's where I disagree. Teachers have to grade homework, create lesson plans, supervise certain after school activities, parent-teacher conferences, faculty meetings, etc. I would say that teachers put in just as much time per year as a regular 40 hour/week rear-round job. And that means that without the holidays & summer vacation, you would see open revolt, if not an utter collapse of the work force. Or in other words, the holidays and summers are simply a well deserved vacation.

That's what it sounds like.

You get what you pay for. And I know a number of engineers who would _love_ to be teachers if it weren't for the "abysmally low" pay. And I guarantee you they would know what they were talking about up at the chalk board.

So I'm telling you that if there was a substantial increase in teacher's pay, you would get droves of much more knowledgeable people teaching these classes (or at least in the realm of science & math). And I would add that the best math/science teachers I ever had started out in the engineering industry. But the only reason they started teaching was because of a "missionary mindset".

One thing my mother has said is that it can be extremely rewarding in the sense that you get to know some wonderful kids. But if you get a class full of screw-offs, and on top of that a principle that does not support the teachers and cowers before "PC" parents, get ready for some stress. That is why my wife walked away.

[George]

And just what is more important to the future of the Republic than learning?

Your "thinking" is about as light as it gets.

[Swingman]

And how on earth did you come up with "learning" wasn't important from the above?

Judging from the out-of-leftfield assumption above, your "thinking" apparently suffers from twisted panties today, George ... Kiss my ass.

[David Hall]

I'm honestly not sure how "fully stocked" a high school shop class is these days. :)

[Silvan]

BLRMPH! Where do I send the dry cleaning bill?

[David Hall]

Entry level in western PA (Pittsburgh area) is in the high $30s. The district I work for (not as a teacher however) tops out at just over $80 in 17 years (that last year is called a "jump step" you go from $58,000 to $80,000 in one fell swoop). Fully paid medical, dental, vision, life etc. (family coverage is %50 per month, no medical co-pays at all, drugs are $10 generic, $20 name brand). Job security out the wazoo (you can't get fired short of killing the kid or having sex with him or her), 193 work days. I still would have a hard time teaching under today's rules though.

As to folks jumping into teaching, if you already have a degree in the subject you wish to teach, you might be able to get a teaching certification after 1 year of full time added college. How long it would take someone with a language degree to get the needed degree and certification to teach "technology education" is anyones guess.

Dave Hall

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Generalizations just don't work in either direction. Deserved by some, but not all. I can name names of some of the laziest people in the profession. When school is out, they are DONE. I know these people personally and can attest to what they do not do.

I appreciate you wanting to stick up for mom, but like any profession or trade, there are plenty that are just there for the paycheck. A few years back our teachers got big increases to attract more and better teacher. What really happened is that a couple of drones that were going to retire decided to stay and pump up their pensions.

The entire education system sucks, IMO. We pay a lot of money per pupil in the USA and get far less return than what other countries get. It is a combination of bloated administration offices, unions that back up low performers, ACLU, and parents that send their kids to school because the don't want to have to watch them all day. Ed

[Silvan]

Two years. Or about 27 the way I would have to do it. Half an hour every fifteen weekend.

Don't need one, that's the whole point! :)

It neatly bypasses the fact that I'm not certified to teach.

[Mike H.]

You can say that again. My wife had to work with a real doozie. She supposedly had all this "tenure", but some of the stories my wife told about the things she had done/said in the one year she taught was disturbing.

I guess I do have a soft spot for her in my heart.

Now you're preachin' to the choir. I know we are spending more on education than we ever have, but somehow I don't think the money is going where it ought to be going.

[Steve]

As a long-time college instructor (and even far more of a long-time wood-working person) I URGE you to leap at the opportunity!

Imagine for only a moment that you would actually be in a position to do more good for a kid's life in but a single semester than others could / might / had-but-blew / etc over a lifetime. We NEED more kids who can work with their hands (constructively) and vocational edu has all but disappeared from our schools (and not replaced with college-acceptable academics).

It's needed. You have the opportunity of a lifetime that ANY educator would cry for and ... you _have to ask_????

Do It. Today.

(Please.)

[Charles Spitzer]

my wife's middle school (7&8 grades) is in the exact same situation. anyone looking to transfer into the paradise valley school district in phoenix az?

regards, charlie