The point is: Get Robertson screws that fit their drivers properly, not the knock off "square head" or "square drive" copies.
After you have stripped 10-15% of them, wrecked your material underneath from slipping and cannot get the stripped screws out anymore from stripping or breaking the heads off, you will wish you had either bought properly designed ones or used nails.
Use an impact driver and you won't have that problem. If you're still that much of a klutz, use TORX/Star screws (I do for places where I'm planning on removing/reusing them).
Robertson work just fine, are cheaper, available in many styles, and hardly ever slip as well as sticking on the end of the bit almost vertically.
It's just the cheap square head (not German) and square drive crap knock-offs that the rest of the world makes with random sizes that are the problem.
So to "Square Drive", but perhaps you have to know what you're doing.
Funny. I haven't had a problem with square drive screws in *years*. At one time, perhaps, but certainly not with any screws I've bought in the last 15 years.
Please don't top-post.
Yeah, it seems the bits have gotten really bad, the screws have also gotten worse and are getting worse as time goes on.
The square head people seemd to have figured out the problem of making the socket too deep in a head screw. Many of the heads used to break off with harder torque applications due to lack of metal bridging the head to the screw shaft after the head socket was formed. I haven't noticed that in the last few years. (made in Malaysia?? junk)
The ceramic paints are still a problem with the US junk decking screws sold in HD. I try to avoid them but sometimes the others are just not available within a 50km so I buy them and grumble about the high prices they charge.
On a previous discussion about heads breaking off different types of decking screws... My son added a pergola to his 3 years old cedar deck and complained how about 1/5 of the ceramic coated deck screws broke off inside the 5/4 decking (shaft). I have never experienced this that I can remeber. When I got there to help he was using an electric (plug in) right angle grill and it was hard to control the torque on it. The battery operated drills seem to have your arm to absorb that last second toque jerk and it must save the screws from over torquing.
This makes me wonder about the impact screwdrivers people keep mentioning. Never having tried one, doesn't that apply small torque jerks to strain the screws even further? It sounds easier on the body but harder on the screws.
So to "Square Drive", but perhaps you have to know what you're doing.
I don't know where you buy your crap, but I've found just the opposite. I've had *no* trouble with screws (mostly from McFeeleys) or bits (DeWalt - Impact Ready) for years. I did have some trouble with screws, ages ago, from the BORG, and stainless steel from one of the (then) local tool stores.
I've *never* busted the head off these sorts of screws. I always drill pilot holes, though.
Like I said, I generally order from McFeeleys. I have 1K Spax screws sitting beside me here, for the shop floor (which has been pushed out to the fall).
Buy an impact driver. Sheesh! You'll never strip another head.
No. It drives screws like the wood is butter. The screws slow down as the torque increases but it doesn't strip heads at all.
Nope.
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 09:01:58 -0500, "Leon" wrote the following:
My take is that you spent 4 times the money I did and still don't have an adjustable gate height, Leon. Plus you added 3x more weight to the gate than I did with the sexy cable. ;)
-- Peace of mind is that mental condition in which you have accepted the worst. -- Lin Yutang
Actually I have been using a combination of both for the last 25 or so years, I have had no problems with either.
Yeah out of my inventory of probably 2K assorted square head screws I have not witnessed a problem with either.
Going back to my original comment of using "qaulity" square drive screws I was refering more to not using the Phillips head "soft metal" screws that come with the kit.
The fact that the impact is a split second amount of force and then none at all and repeated over and over affords the screw the ability to actually absorbe the force and not go beyond its torque to yield limits, plus it helps to prevent caming out.
You can analize it on paper or as I have discovered in real life, the extra expense is recouped in time saved in building the gate and so far, not having to replace the gate which I have to do time and again in the past. The height of the gate and the width of the gate is totally up to you up to a point, this is all determined by the length of the 2x4's you use. Width limits are normally well handled with the typical wide yard gate. I have gone up to 4' wide. The added weight is about 4~5#'s IIRC.
I have used cables and turn buckles however the gate I have used this on, my dad's atrium gate that was actually built in 1974, is now distorted, not flat. A 36 year old cedar gate with 8" pickets....
structure done properly ... the top rail covers the top of the stiles, protecting the stile's end grain from exposure to weather/moisture incursion, and insuring a longer gate life.
Surprising how many DIY'ers, and DIY "how to" publications, miss that simple bit of old time wisdom.
The devil is always in the details ...
job for a fraction of the price.
Looks good. It would be difficult to brace a lighter weight gate like this.
He's not being lazy, he's being deliberately obtuse. Note that he actually reformatted your post so that you appeared to have top posted to his top post.
Frankly, I've started ignoring Josepi's posts, both because they are top posted and his opinions (on electricity, on homeowners insurance and on square drive screws) don't match general experience and are usually delivered in a shrill manner.
scott
It really is a decent kit. Like everything else the quality may have slipped over the past 10 or so years but the kit compares to most of that type gate hardware anyway.
Two of angle brackets, the hinged ones, require the 2x4 to be a specific width. Because most people building gates use PT lumber the width of the wood can vary and may be too wide to fit the bracket. You simply trim the board to fit.
On 21 Jun 2010 15:11:20 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote the following:
The rest of us have simply plonked him. Not a problem.
-- Peace of mind is that mental condition in which you have accepted the worst. -- Lin Yutang
I have built a few gates and never had a problem with much sag. The weight has to be hanging on the latch kit, most of the time and angular support boards have to be centered on the hinges and the facing boards cannot be "pulling" on the support as they age and shrink.
Of course this all depends on whether you want the crossbuck type look. With spruce these brackets will help but in the end the horizontal pieces will sag also without some complete width triangulation structure. Wood shrinks mostly across the grain.
Two of angle brackets, the hinged ones, require the 2x4 to be a specific width. Because most people building gates use PT lumber the width of the wood can vary and may be too wide to fit the bracket. You simply trim the board to fit.
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Further to my earlier post I forgot to say all my gate experience is from time examining them closely in the State Pen during my last stretch.
The advise is good. Government guaranteed!
oh so sorry for jumping from the kill filter to LOL LOL LOL LOL
I have built a few gates and never had a problem with much sag. The weight has to be hanging on the latch kit, most of the time and angular support boards have to be centered on the hinges and the facing boards cannot be "pulling" on the support as they age and shrink.
Of course this all depends on whether you want the crossbuck type look. With spruce these brackets will help but in the end the horizontal pieces will sag also without some complete width triangulation structure. Wood shrinks mostly across the grain.
Two of angle brackets, the hinged ones, require the 2x4 to be a specific width. Because most people building gates use PT lumber the width of the wood can vary and may be too wide to fit the bracket. You simply trim the board to fit.
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