The UK 'safety' people could probably make a case that German houses which use three phase circuits should be re-wired with one phase to avoid the tiny risk of miss-use, but even if they did so, it ain't gonna happen.
tim
Except that we are adopting a "harmonized" colour code.
Yes. Although a French electrician will also be allowed to come to the UK and use their system.
Worse still - so will a Pole !!!!
Curious - how are the new colours an HnS issue?
Regards, NT
They are different, and may cause lethal surprise to the unwary.
Interesting point this, as the old colours are beginning to become rare as rocking horse sh*/. Unless you want to order 20,000mtr or more.
Steve Dawson
presumably 3 phase colours.
A more sensible approach, is to accept that German wiring is none of our business.
To a certain degree, technical harmonisation can bring benefits by way of reduced trade barriers, but often harmonised standards are not implemented as the agreed best practice of existing standards, and there are winners and losers in terms of safety, performance and ability to compete in a newly distorted market place. The sort of heavy handed implementation of harmonisation seen across the EU, at the expense of long accepted and proven local practices, has turned out to be devastating for some regional industries, while a boon for those that lobbied hardest for (or practically wrote in many cases) the harmonised standards to suit themselves alone.
That is one of the main problems I have with these forced changes to the wiring regs, in that it ensures that over the next few decades, most installations will evolve to have ambiguously mixed wiring colour codes (unless there is strong enough resistance from within the industry).
The changes could have been implemented in such a way as to forbid mixed installations, and allow for indefinite usage of British coloured wiring for modifications and extensions of existing installations, instead of an arbitrary date in 2006 by which we must all change. But then the Deputy Prime Minister's spies wouldn't be able to tell if anyone had done a sneaky bit of DIY wiring, would they!
Except for ALL the existing installations, which will generally remain unharmonised !
Many houses will still have appliances in use with flex of the old colours which went out of use - what - 20 years ago, and householders manage to cope with changing plugs just as well - or badly as they have ever done. Pro electricians should be able to cope with a mixture - if they can't they shouldn't be allowed to trade.
Hi John,
The relevant standard is NF C 15-100. You can buy a full copy for around
250 euro fromPlease don't just 'do it the English way' and hope EDF won't notice as advised in some of the posts in this thread. How would you feel if you bought a house in Britain that had been rewired to some odd foreign standard by the previous owner?
Hope this helps,
Roger.
On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 01:11:45 +0100, Dave Plowman strung together this:
But why? It's just making things more difficult for the sake of it. If I go into a factory to do some wiring how do I know what colour is what? The chances of the person who's been in before me knowing what they're doing and labelling up the DB's with "different wiring colours in this installation" is slim at best. All it means is I have to check the wiring more thoroughly just to ascertain what colour todays live wire is, and I can't see the customer wanting to pay more just because the wirings a different colour. Once again it's the humble sparky trying to earn a living that loses out because people expect you to do everything for nothing and be cheaper than the last guy that was in there bodging everything together.
You may think standardisation of wiring colours isn't a good idea - I happen to think it is - in exactly the same way as standardising flex colours all those years ago. And why cable wasn't changed at the same time, I've no idea. The facts about poor male colour vision apply equally now as then, and green and red should be avoided as perhaps the *most* important colours to get right safety wise.
It's long overdue, and should cause no problems to any half competent electrician.
But, when you walk into an unknown installation, don't you thoroughly check things anyway to be sure you're not doing something wrong. It's OK to rely on your own knowledge of your own installations, but I would never rely on the workings of others unless I know they are who they say they are.
I would check that the wires are doing what I think they're doing anyway in a place I didn't know.
On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 13:10:23 +0100, Dave Plowman strung together this:
I'm not against it, I just know that the useless electricians out there will end up making my life difficult when I try to do things properly.
On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 17:42:25 GMT, "BigWallop" strung together this:
Not fully. If I was to walk into a large factory it would take me days to check all the existing wiring first, and the job I went in to do may only take a couple of hours. That's why I make it clear on test certificates that I've only tested what I've done.
Which would involve checking and testing the entire installation, obviously I test my own work and where possible the work of others that is affected by, or affects, my part of the installation. The problem is that in order to rectify everything that someone else has done is cost prohibitive.
I'm not saying don't do testing on the circuits you're working on, it's just difficult to know what the entire installation is like, and if it was done properly in the first place by the previous person then extensive testing just to work out what's what wouldn't be neccesary.
That's why need standardisation then ? You'd know for sure that the other parts, if done by a properly qualified sparks, is up to scratch before you have to go testing everything else and not just the parts you're working on. The cost of replacing or repairing installations that have been done by a cowboy outfit would be down to the owner of the premises, if they knew about it or not, through health and safety at work requirements.
We have two properties just now that are in need of full refurbishment due to add ons onto add ons, and the customer was fully aware of the effect it would have on the company because they took the cheapest methods rather than the proper ones. It's being done in phases, with the most urgent being the priority jobs, and this is helping to keep the costs to an affordable level.
The sooner the standardised requirements come into force throughout the EU the better, I say anyway, as it will mean that proper qualifications will stand for something. I went through all that hard training and sleepless nights for someone else to come along and try to do the same quality work as me, but they didn't have a clue about it and only worried about it working and that's it.
I am sure that anyone, properly qualified like yourself, following in my foot steps on any installation would know how and where things are without any problems. Maybe that's because I came up through the ranks and not just popped in from a day release college. It does make a huge difference to everyone if things are on a simple standard that is learned by years of on site training and not just from a book at night classes.
Oh what a rant that was. :-))
Do you feel better now? :-)
I think that broadly speaking, harmonisation of standards is a good thing. The difficulty comes with the gargantuan task of achieving it in practice where there are large legacy issues of systems that are likely to be in place for decades.
.andy
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