Could someone please explain the new regs about home wiring. We've just moved in to a 400+ year old cottage, with thankfully a merely 40 year old wiring system - with additions of course, but certainly not with modern standards (i.e. relatively few single sockets). What do I have to do if I want to add to the existing system - e.g put a fan heater and a mirror light in the bathroom? I understand I need some sort of testing and certificate. How much would that cost? And ... and this is what's really worrying me ... is that testing likely to show up problems with the existing wiring which I am then obliged to have corrected, even though the installation seems to have no obvious problems? (I am assuming the new testing requirements have a nit-picking element to them.) I certainly cannot afford a rewire at present (ever?). But I don't intend moving until I am in my dotage - 20+ years on say. Would it be easier to just add whatever I want, using my common sense, and when I sell the house make it clear it needs a rewire.
If the wiring really is that old then the only rational course is to rewire the lot. If you don't then expect your insurance to be invalid if there is evr a problem with it.
Oh for goodness sake, stop scare-mongering... there's nothing
*inherently* wrong with 40-year-old wiring, in the sense that there most likely would be if it was 60 or 80 years old. It will be PVC sheathed and unlikely to have degraded, to a dangerous rip-it-out-and-start-again level as you are suggesting. And as for the insurance issue - that's just plain ridiculous. When did you last see a standard policy which says that it will be invalidated if the wiring is more than 40 years old? Or if the wiring has not been officially inspected?
To the OP - search the archives of this newsgroup for "Part P" - there's loads of info on this stuff. Officially you'd need to submit a building notice to do the work you suggest; the council would send round an inspector. Probably cost something like 100 quid? They wouldn't inspect the whole property though.
Apart from that though, you should probably have a Periodic Inspection Report carried out separately by an electrician, especially if there
*is* any doubt about the safety of your existing wiring. There will certainly be a fair amount of issues raised in such a report, since obviously your installation won't be to modern standards (and chances are the electrician *will* recommend rewiring (a) to cover his butt and (b) in the hope of getting the work). You would be under no obligation to act on the report, as you seem to be worried about; however at least you'd know what you were up against and could make an informed decision.
AIUI, in my simplified way: In dry rooms (not kitchens bathrooms etc) If you yourself don't have part P certification, you may add sockets on spurs (max one spur per ring main socket, no "spur on a spur") but may not extend the ring main itself. You can replace sockets with double sockets, replace light fittings, replace lengths of cable (including those in the ring main) if you think they are damaged in some way.
However, in wet rooms and kitchens you may do much less. You may not add a new circuit for example, although you may change the electrical fittings on an existing circuit. You may not add an extractor fan circuit. New circuits in wet rooms and kitchens require either buidling control approval (and advance notice) if you are going to do it yourself, or someone certified to part P to do it and then self certify it.
I have read that 90% of DIY work that should be notified to BC is actually not notified. On eBay you find people selling the 'old colours' cable. Apparently people buy this so that the date when the work was done appears to be before the new rules came into force.
There is no reason to completely re-do 40 year old wiring for safety reasons provided that it really is only 40 years old. By that time PVC wiring was in use and will not have deteriorated in this time. That is not to say that this guarantees safety in that the wiring may have been done incorrectly for the time, but that is possible at any time.
As to the notion that an insurance policy would be invalid, that is complete nonsense. No policy that I have ever had or seen has such an exclusion.
At this point, the sensible course of action, would be to obtain a periodic inspection report. That would highlight aspects of the wiring that do not meet modern standards e.g.
- Earth and circuit breaker arrangements if it is a TT system (fed by overhead wires)
- Earth bonding of services like water and gas
- Damaged fittings
If there really is a paucity of outlets and fittings and considerable additions are needed, it may make sense to start again on grounds of practicality and consistency rather than safety. Most of the cost of wiring is in the labour costs of gaining access to floor spaces, chasing walls, making good and so on rather than in the materials.
Obviously those can be a DIY job.
Wiring can also be a DIY job, but then to conform with Part P of the Building Regulations it is necessary to make a Building Notice application at the local authority, who will then arrange inspection.
Doing wiring by "common sense" isn't a good idea. It should be done in accordance with BS7671 (aka IEE Wiring Regulations). A Part P inspection would pick that up.
There isn't a nit picking element to BS7671 - it does make sense and has been developed over many years.
The bad aspects of Part P are that it allows members of certain trade associations to self certify their work when there is no clear evidence that that results in a raising of standards. The original basis for it was to reduce the number of deaths from wiring problems - it has had the reverse effect, and of course provides employment for bureaucrats at the local authorities together with excitement for those who espouse bureaucracy and regulation for its own sake as beneficial.
One approach that could be taken is to add in new wiring as though a new installation is being done. This can certainly be done in stages and then eventually the existing system phased out, effectively neutralising it. However, this should be done with a good grounding in what is required. Currently it is estimated that less than 2% of DIY electrical installations are being notified to local authorities. However, they do have the power to make the householder get it changed if the BS7671 requirements have not been met.
If the wiring really is that old or indeed older because the OP apprantly has no real idea then it is long overdue for a full inspection and very probably needs a serious overhaul or complete replacement
If the wiring is in bad condition then the insurer will probably refuse any liability. There may not be a specific clause but they will, quite rightly, expect the wiring tob inspected periodically.
At this point, the sensible course of action, would be to obtain a
Agreed.
Agreed. Which is why I said originally the logical course of action would be to start from scratch. I would not expect anyone to do that without professional advice before they did so.
It may need lots of things to meet the demands of use in a modern home, however the age of the wiring as stated is not in itself a major cause for concern. There is a fair chance that the ring circuits have undersized earth wires by modern standards, and are possibly combined with rewireable fuses. These factors combined will reduce safely a little, but not to the level of being dangerous in most cases. Retrofitting a new consumer unit with RCD protection for these circuits would mitigate this.
For information on dating old electrics, the OP may wish to read this thread:
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> As to the notion that an insurance policy would be invalid, that is
If the householder admitted to having modified the wiring to a poor standard then maybe, but highly unlikely in the case of moving in to a new place for which you have no previous responsibility.
Whilst this may be the simplest way in some cases it may represent more cost than the OP wishes to take on. Assuming the state of the current wiring is ok, it would be quite plausible to perhaps change the CU and add new circuits[1]. Improving the safety of the old wiring into the process.
[1] If the OP wants many new sockets etc it would make sense to place these on new circuits rather than extend the old ones (even if this is the kind inadvisable behaviour that part P encourages). It would also make the new circuits much simpler to integrate into a new system should the place be fully rewired later.
Yep. About as technical as the original suggestion.
Obviously an inspection should be done, as it should be with change of ownership. An age of 40 years does not imply complete replacement, because PVC wiring does not deteriorate in the same way as rubber covered wiring that predates this period.
Indeed not usually desirable, you may however find some properties where all the sockets are wired as spurs from a distribution ring circuit. The guideline on number of spurs vs ring sockets is just that, a guideline - not a hard and fast rule.
You *can* do this if you make it a fused spur.
No, this is not correct - part P does allow for the extension of a circuit outside of a special location as a non notifiable work. In fact if you are adding sockets to an existing ring circuit then it is usually preferable to add them into the ring where possible rather than as spurs.
yup
Adding a new circuit *anywhere* is notifiable under part P.
You can forgo the "advance" part of the notice in an emergency to make safe an installation.
Which it does not since use of the new colours was permitted before the start of part P and use of the old ones was permitted after the start of part P (there was a two year transition from old to new).
New wiring needs to comply with current regulations.
If an existing circuit is non-compliant then you should not attach new wiring to it, but run a new circuit back to the consumer unit. The new circuit would have to be compliant with main equipotential bonding requirements, so if you don't have main equipotential bonding to incoming services (water, gas, etc) then that would have to be added to make the new circuit compliant.
If the wiring is cruddy now, it will be even cruddier in 20+ years time, and presumably when you are in your dotage you will be less able or inclined to do a full rewire, or possibly to afford to have it done.
Also, rewiring should preferably be done before redecorating, so you aren't disturbing new decorations or having to make good unneccessarily.
One final point regarding insurance - in a 400 year old cottage the insurers *are* quite likely to have policy conditions about the state of the wiring, and the usual (10 year?) recommended inspection period is likely to be decreased to every 5 or even 2 years. Especially if it's thatched, MICC (mineral insulated copper clad / pyrotenax) wiring may be specified. It's very suitable for many period properties as apart from being almost indestructable it is quite unobtrusive for surface wiring.
I'll try and send you by email a PDF about wiring in old buildings - which I think is from SPAB - which might be helpful
When I tpook out insurance on my (old) house, they wanted a surveyors report, who duly notred amongst other hings teh large ash and maple trees down teh side..thyey insisted that these be removed in a sensible period..
In fact I removed the house instead, as the trees were in better condition: They new house has 2.5m deep foundations at that point instead.
Thay can make whatever conditions they want at the time you purchase the insurance but they can't just invent conditions when you claim, which is the issue here.
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