I have a 5' square downstairs cloakroom. Originally I was thinking of putting a shower cubicle in, but realise it will be a bit cramped, so am now think of making it a wetroom. Can't see anything in
Keith
in
Not sure quite what guidance you are looking for. I just used my common sense when I did mine 15 yeas ago before we all HAD to go and ask the interweb.
Having said that a friend having a new build done, took the general idea but the builder has not implemented it properly and the floor does not drain and leaves puddles against the walls.
I got my builder to lay the concrete floor with a 900mm square, 75mm deep recess with the shower drain in the middle. This recess isn't really necessary but it does stop most of the water escaping. You will have to locate a suitable trap that can be cleared from above - it's too long ago to remember where mine came from but it was not easy to find 15 years ago. It may be that there are better traps around now but mine tends to block every so often with hairs and the recess in the floor becomes even more beneficial then as the whole floor doesn't flood.
I used the 150mm fireclay coloured tiles that are smooth on one side (used in the hallway) and have square projections on the other so that they are anti slip in the wet room. I don't know what that range of tiles is called or whether they are still available, but they also had
100mm skirting tiles that were very suitable for the sloping wall of the shower area, as for the skirting generally.You will need to lay all the tiles sloping towards the drain - 1 in 80 is what I seem to have aimed at, though is may be greater in the shower bit.
There - saved you thinking it through for yourself !
Rob
in
Is that all? How about:
- waterproofing the floor
- what to use under the tiles especially the floor
- what impact is there on other things in the wet room like toilet cisterns and overflows, etc
- how about windows and ventilation
Not saying I have the answers, but at least I know the questions exist.
in
A bit of plastic sheet under the concrete and up the walls a bit is no bad idea. And of course tile the walls anywhere they get splashed.
Upstairs, things are a shade more complicated, as you need to arrive at a bit of structural strength in a wooden floor to allow all the concrete. but in essence its just like a huge shower tray. The floor iS the shower tray..
in
Tiles do that.
If you want a belt and braces, plastic sheet under concrete, PVA on the screed, and tiles on top.
Tile cement is pretty good.
Then use almost anything. I've got plasterboard walls with tiles over. If the grouting is good, its fine. If the grouting isn't good, you have problems no matter WHAT is underneath.
and overflows, etc
None whatsoever.
As per normal shower/toilet regulations.
Most of them are non-questions though.
A wet room is nothing more than a huge shower enclosure.
You need a watertight tray of some sort in case of drain blockages, and good high strength concrete is enough for that..it needs to be waterproof, but concrete is, if enough cement is used.. If using wood, simply lay up glass fibre over it and up the walls a bit before tiling.
Walls only need be splashproof, and tiles plus grout are more than adequate.
Ventilation is the same as for any shower room.
Sanitaryware that is glazed ceramic is fine for taking a shower!
It doesn't stay wet for long if you have good heating and ventilation.
Concealed cisterns and the like may be an issue..you will need to seal access panels with rubber seals, and be careful around the flush levers.
As long as you tile round all your sanitary ware pipweork *properly*, a good dousing does no harm.
In general there is very little serious dousing above waist height anyway.
>
I had one put in 2 years ago. I'm in a second floor flat so getting it right was important.
A wedi Fundo tray makes the essential floor drainage very easy to get right. It also provides insulation making a tiled floor quite comfortable to walk on even in the early morning. Wedi board on the walls, taped, then tiled floor to ceiling. Seal everything with silicone. Think about splashes and drainage for every surface: if there is a tiled top then it needs a slope for runoff. A wall hung WC with concealed cistern removes another area where water may hang around. Have a good extractor for ventilation so that everything dries out quickly. I used opaque glass for the door, in fact made the whole wall glazed which gained a few valuable inches in a very tight space.
and under what circumstances would grout failure be acceptable? Does the floor flex? Most houses have an extremely bouncy first floor, and grout hates movement.
screed, and tiles on top.
Better, but heavy. Hope the floor is strong enough.
And to make the slope down to the drain? Hope the wet room isn't too big or you might need quite a drop to get the slope. The room also needs a sill in case of blocked drains or traps.
grouting is good, its
Then it is a disaster just waiting to happen. Dot and dab plasterboard flexes, and the best grouting in the world will crack after 10 years of that, especially if the floor is flexing too.
and overflows, etc
Apart from built-in cisterns as you say below, and you can't really have any wooden or mdf cabinetry in a wet room. No direct saturation, but 10 years of vapour will penetrate the best cabinets.
But you agree you need it. The OP was converting a bath to a shower.
And, for example, would you have wooden cabinets inside a shower cubicle? Also, the size itself creates issues.
high strength concrete
cement is used.. If using
...up the walls a bit? We're talking about potentially flooding the rest of the house. Baths and shower trays are by their nature waterproof. A wet room depends on the knowledge of the person making it.
Totally disagree, and I've had the blancmange in the shower tray to prove it. The tiles and grout were intact, it was the plasterboard that had dissolved, due to a small failure of the grout letting water behind the tiles. And the grout failure was caused by too much flex in the shower tray (I think). We now have a very rigid tray made of something like a ceramic foam. Weird stuff.
I was concerned about overflow pipes from the cistern. You are turning a once in a blue moon occurrence (the ball c*ck failing causing water to come out of the overflow) into a daily occurrence (your morning shower causing the cistern to overflow). If the overflow doesn't drip onto your conservatory roof leaving a green deposit after a few years then fine.
panels with rubber
What are they concealed in? mdf or wood cabinets? How do they feel about water vapour?
dousing does no harm.
A water softener would be a good idea though, because hard water will leave deposits on ceramic. They recommend you squeejie your shower after every use. You can squeejie your toilet too I suppose. Oh and watch out for where the radiator pipes come out of the floor.
This is true, and my blancmange experience came from a shower wall collapse at around knee height. Many showers and wet rooms are made your way, but I believe they do not last long. Of course, SWMBO will be fed up with the colour before blancmange time ;o) so problem solved.
Interesting. I was looking at this system a while ago.
Do you have a wooden floor, and what is the construction of the walls?
flex? Most houses have
screed, and tiles on top.
Make it so. Shower trays are not light either.
you might need quite a
grouting is good, its
and the best grouting
what do and dab?Its studwork silly. Been fine for 7 year already. No issues at all.
and overflows, etc
wooden or mdf cabinetry
best cabinets.
No it won't., any more than rood timbers in an unheated loft stay wet and rot.
Its called VENTILATION.
The average humidity is not high. Its just the peak humidity.
You simply cover everything in tiles to avoid aaturation and build strong so there is no flex.
So? both need similar.
Also, the size itself
No I would not. Nor would anyone with any sense..wood is OK but it MUST be covered in something impervious. The big issue is standing water in cracks. Thts what does the damage. Hosing down a wooden structure that immediately get dry again is absolutely a non issue.
high strength concrete
cement is used.. If using
the house. Baths and
knowledge of the person making
No, it depends on the nature of how its built, whether he person is knowledgeable is not actually the point ;-)
The tiles and grout were
the grout letting water
shower tray (I think). We
I dont see how you can say 'The tiles and grout were intact' and 'a small failure of the grout' in the same sentence without looking a bit of a dick frankly. You have proved my point. All that e.g WBP would have done would have been take longer to rot..
The extnension of your argument would be to only construct roof trusses and internal walls out of conrete, 'so that when the roof tiles fail and water gets in, they won't rot'
The idea, my dear chap, is to not have the roof tiles fail...
I had an issue - quic;ly fixed - where a run dwn te side of a drormer was getting my nice plaster wet.
The chippies stripped the tiles and laid the lead soakers CORRECTLY.
You can do the same in a shower room. Use flashing. If you want.
in a blue moon
into a daily occurrence
drip onto your
I don't see how a shower can get into a cistern frankly. Mine have lids on. Most modern cisterns overflow into the bowl anyway. I haven't seen a separate overflow pipe for some years now.
panels with rubber
They don't mind at all. Its a long term soaking that is bad news.
dousing does no harm.
deposits on ceramic. They
toilet too I suppose.
Your toilet already gets a cistern full of hard water every time you crap. Either you clean your bathroom or you don't.
Oh and
Make em come out of the wall,. tile and grout round them. Or build a plinth with a slightly sloping top.
Its not rocket science you know.,
around knee height.
long. Of course, SWMBO
Indeed. The issue is to build rigid enough so that tiles do NOT flex. And silicone everything BEFORE tiling, so that minor grout failures do not result in hidden pools. And grout properly.
What lies behind the tiles should not be subject to water any more than roof timbers in heavy rain are.
Don't. I was quite taken with the idea of a wet room until we rented a holiday cottage with one. Absolutely hopeless. Soggy footprints in the bedroom, all your bathroom gubbins gets wet. Totally impractical.
Any underfloor heating is useful to ensure things dry off quickly. Simon.
Which is exactly my experience in hotels with shower wet-rooms, unless they are very large such that the shower can't possibly wet the other half of the room. If it was _only_ a shower room, that might not matter so much, but when it's also the WC, make- up room, wash-hand basin, etc, it becomes impractical IME.
Andy Hall wrote:
Yes, the floor is wooden (2nd floor of terrace built c.1830). The floor needed to be raised a little to clear some awkward pipe runs. So the joists were reinforced with 2x2 on top and an 18mm ply base placed over the Wedi waste trap. The Wedi base was laid on a mortar bed on top of the ply. (NB Wedi have recently changed the design of the trap so it is no longer necessary to box it in mortar below the sub-floor.) The Wedi base is about 40mm thick and profiled for the drainage. Walls: at back a brick party wall, very soft render on part. To one side plasterboard, the other an original stud wall with plaster on expanded metal. Plywood to box in cistern and also replacing some of the worst of the plastered wall which came away with the old tiles. All covered in Wedi board of various thickness before sealing and tiling. The fourth wall is all 12mm toughened glass. Expensive but one of my better ideas I think. The problem was that as the room is very small (1m x 2m) everything is bound to get wet so a wooden door never a possibility. A glass door but retaining the wooden frame didn't seem wise either. I looked at GRP doors but the only cheap ones are front doors; the plain industrial ones with frames to match would have cost more than glass. Apart from water resistance the glass gains a bit of space, and lets a lot of light into a tiny internal space which makes it much less confining. The floor also turned out better than expected. The Wedi base is a foam core which provides good insulation so the tiles are never cold. Having chosen porcelain tiles with a rough 'riven slate' like surface I started to worry that they might be too uncomfortable for bare feet, they are not and the surface is confidently non-slip.
Apart from design, electrics and the ceiling this was not DIY. Having taken 6 months to do a kitchen the previous year I decided I couldn't live without a bathroom for more than a few days!
This thread has prompted me to sort out more of the photos: <
Keith Do not pay any attention to the nay-sayers. An open shower arrangement is by far the most comfortable - no clammy shower cutains, no sticking shower doors, etc.
I trust you are starting from scratch such that the shower area can be recessed into the floor - you need to do this to get adequate drainage. When the concrete was laid I included a 900mm square, 75mm deep recess with the drain in the middle. You will need to get a drain outlet that is accessible from the top for clearing the trap.
The floor will need about a 1 in 80 slope. I used 150mm floor tiles that look like fire clay - they are smooth on one side and used that way in the hall and square projections on the other for anti slip in the wet area. This range of tiles (15 years ago) also had skirting tiles that I used at 45 degrees for the side of the shower recess. You don't need to slope the concrete, just build up the cement work you lay the tiles into.
A small towell rail keeps my area warm with a wall mounted fan heated for a boost in the winter. Also get a humidistat driven ventilator fan - I got one of Ebay for around =A330 which also has a pull cord for dealing with smells which is the best arrangement IMO.
Certainly take on board some the doom merchants' comments but as you are on the ground floor and I assume it's concrete there will be no flexing of anything and silicon and grout will seal everything. I also don't see the point of polythene under the concrete as the tiles are waterproof and the cement grout is so too for the amount of time that any water is lying on it.
I do think that a lot of advise given on this forum is over-the-top and perfectionist. In that context, seeing all the options is good, but a bit of thinking and using common sense needs to come into it as well.
Rob
Don't listen to the yey-sayers. The shower area of a wet room is open to all the draughts and cold air whereas a cubicle quickly builds up a nice steamy micro-climate.
MBQ
I'm planning on both with a small wet room and frameless shower screen.
Is this the best of both worlds or the worst?
cheers, Pete.
What draughts and cold air?
double up the radiators and inmsulation! it is by definition, not a large room.
The best.
The only issue that has been mooted that I find relevant, is paddling in wet feet into the bedroom. There should be at least one area of a wet room that is dry enough for a bathmat.
Agreed - interesting that the configuration has shown such a divergence of opinion.
The one thing I would report as a "yea-sayer" is the number of people who have stayed with us and have said what a nice shower area - I suppose on the other hand you wouldb't criticize your host if you didn't like it !.
Two I know of have copied the idea in new build houses. The one improvement I must get round to is getting rid of the electric shower and replacing it with a mains pressure / pumped one.
Rob
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