Have just been dissappointed by the results of a full structural survey (by an MIStructE !) on a 1930's "cottage", that we've been seriously keen to buy. It seems that it has solid 9" walls - no cavity. Are there any other ways, apart from dry-lining, of seriously tackling the problems of insulation, damp, condensation, coldness etc.that I always associate with structures like this? Are solid walls normal on a house of this age - even our current early 1900s one has cavities? Appreciate any replies - we're on the point of chucking it in and re-visiting "Rightmove" - ahhhhh! :-}
My house (mainly) has solid walls and while they are inefficient in terms on insulation, they are not damp, and we don't have problems with condensation or coldness either. If you search through google there was a thread a while ago where I calculated the heat loss for my whole house (complete with mistake when accounting for heat gained by upstairs from downstairs).
If you can accommodate some cellotex or kingspan in this cottage (ie if the rooms are big enough for you to sacrifice 25-50mm on each external wall) then dry lining before you move in would not be terribly expensive and you'll probably be redecorating anyway.
If the building is or could be rendered externally then you can add the insulation outside instead.
Thanks for that Neil - will look into the Cellotax/Kingspan suggestion
- the insulating of the render is also a possibility - it is already rendered, which we'll most likely need to renew anyway. Do you know what can be done regarding the insulation in respect of the render? P.S. You've cheered "her" up already, thanks! :-}}
It's not relevant for my house so I didn't investigate too much, but the cellotex and/or kingspan websites both give case studies where presumably one sticks their respective product to the bare walls and renders over.
Actually, I'm really pleased you posted this because I've just had a look at the celotex (my spelling was incorrect before) websire and it appears that it *is* relevant to me - upstairs at least:-
"Celotex insulation can be fixed to the external face of a masonry before applying a reinforced external render or shiplab boarding or tile hanging. This technique allows wall insulation to be improved with minimal increase in wall thickness. Any cavity created between the insulation and the external wall finish benefits from the Class 1 surface spread of flame, as well al[sic] low surface emissivity."
Further into the website:-
"1. Prior to the installation of the tuff-R? Zero boards the substrate must be checked for soundness.
Large uneven projections should be removed and all holes filled and leveled. Loose material should be cleaned off to leave a sound dry surface.
Downpipes should be temporarily removed and if necessary relocated after completion of installation. Lengthening of over flow pipes should be allowed for, together with extensions to sills.
A starter strip/drip should be located at least one half brick above the DPC, and fixed directly to the substrate with plugs and screws.
Celotex tuff-R? Zero GA3000Z should be fixed to the substrate using proprietary fasteners which are generally driven into pre-drilled holes.
All insulation board joints should be tightly butted and staggered.
Apply preservative treated timber battens vertically over the face of the tuff-R? Zero insulation boards, secured back to the underlying masonry.
Fix a breather membrane horizontally with minimum 100 mm laps to the surface of the battens.
Render Finish Fix stainless steel expanded metal lathing to the battens.
Proprietary systems are available with reinforced ribs to allow for a full span of 600 mm between battens.
Sand and cement render should be applied in three coats.
Tile hanging Tilting fillets should be applied at horizontal functions to suit design requirements.
Fix tile battens to vertical battens to suit tile gauge.
Apply vertical DPCs at all junctions and hang tile in accordance with manufacturer?s instructions.
Other cladding Timber or other lightweight cladding systems can be fixed to the vertical battens."
I might be able to do something like this for my house since the first floor is tile-hung.
We have 18" solid walls on our 1930s house, and no cold/damp/condensation problems (there were lots when we bought the place, but pretty much sorted now). The key is adequate heating and ventilation. Vents in every room and well designed CH.
1930's is late -ish for no cavity wall As an example We have a 1906 house with 9 inch walls (40 foot frontage) with the north sea a half a mile away with no obstructions between us and the sea. we use 1 ton of coal each winter approx 60 pounds, and a monthly averaged LPG central heating + water heating bill of 40 pounds( though we've just had an increase on that). our foundations are of the " gradually getting wider brick wall type and not very deep" and the winter water table is only a couple of feet down. dampness none condensation none coldness yes well it can be especially with a North easterly gale. just stoke up the stove I've fitted! but we have only 2 neighbours (and one of them 100 yards away) wonderful views from the 1.5 acre garden a short walk to an practically unused beach and only a three miles from the Norfolk broads. we Aint't moving
Insulation we've double glazed, The roof has now got over a foot of rock wool (was less than 2 inches) Due to internal fancy mouldings and small rooms we are intending shortly to go for the celotex or similar covered by mesh and render as described in another reply.
I lived for twenty years in a cottage built in the early 1600s, with two feet thick sandstone walls. No problems with damp, condensation or coldness.
You're worrying too much. Presumably if it's not already centrally heated, you will be fitting it. Once you've been living there for a few days and the structure has warmed up, you'll be fine. If there's an open fire in the living room, make the room above or on the other side of the fireplace your bedroom in winter to make the most of the thermal store that the chimney breast forms.
Sounds perfectly normal to me. Those old places dont perform as well in terms of dryness, heating costs, draughts, maintenance costs and damp proneness, but they are a very large proportion of our housing stock, and those points are not good reasons to refuse to buy IMHO. Theyre not perfect but they work ok. If thats all your survey has found, its unusually good. If you really want a modern box with no issues, you'd need to buy modern.
I think it depends on where you live. Cavity walls were introduced to stop damp penetration not for insulation. In my BCO days virtually all pre-war houses in my patch (SW London, relatively sheltered) were 9" solid brick walls: this appalled a new colleague who joined us from Portsmouth where cavity walls had been the norm for several decades before this.
Inspired by your idea yesterday(Celltex) we went looking for a builder to advise us and he agrees it's good stuff. Inside he agreed it makes the room sizes slightly smaller (not really a problem for us) and outside sometimes can cause difficulty with the extra thickness of wall at soffit level if the end of rafters are not exposed . Ours are. He's agreed to come and have a look at the job when I've put together a "spec" of all the other things we need done as well. Nice guy but so busy he wouldn't be able to start before 2005!
I realise this is DIY ng but here we feel the need to call in the "professionals" to at least get the basics sorted out - plumbing/electrics/decorating - they'll be down to us, her & me :-} Thanks again, Neil
On Tue, 25 May 2004 16:27:59 +0100, Aiden wrote: Hey, everyone, we are seriously reassured by all your comments - sounds like we are not alone after all with our solid walls.
We have decided to try and think a bit more positively about the place and see if we can get some ££s of the price to help pay for the insulation work.
Celotex/Kingspan, has a high insulation value for a thin depth. It is best to have outside insulated as all the house will be wrapped in a blanket. With inside only the joists act a large thermal bridge extracting heat from the house. Best have inside and out, and the insulation keeps heat out summer.
Our place (SE Essex) was built in 1956 and has solid 9" walls (with 1" render over some parts). Cold and damp is not a problem and worstcase heatloss for the whole house is still under 8kW.
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