Has anyone else installed this and had problems ?.
KB5031356 went in ok and I think an update for Edge went in too but that never gives any warning or ask permission.
Then KB5001716 took ages, rebooted a couple of times before it got to 100% installed and then I started getting automatic disk error corrections from Windows when it attempted rebooting and it took ages doing some corrections to disk errors while showing Stage1, Stage 2 etc and some numbers, and finally it decided that it couldn't finish the update so it backed it out !.
Took about 3 hours all in.
Now I can log in, disk management claims that all four partitions are healthy but I no longer have a start menu.
When I click on Start the taskbar at the bottom of the screen just slides down out of view. Wierd.
I can still right click on start and get to the same options that way though.
I was considering swapping the 500Gb WD blue hard drive for a WD blue SSD but M$soft have withdrawn the media creation tool (although I previously downloaded it an saved on a USB drive and used that to put a clean Win10 Home/64 on my HP AIO PC).
I also see that Macrium reflect and another free cloning tool are no longer 'free' and I don't know what damage KB5001716 has done in addition to switching off the start menu. I would prefer to start with a clean Win10 Pro/32 install on this PC.
Failing that I will have to move all my data across to the HP AIO and pension off this Win 10 Pro/32 m/C. Because of the way the HP AIO is made, I need to do this without physically removing the SSD from the HP AIO.
IGNORE the subject line, it is package KB5031356 that is the problem update. KB5001716 seems to have gone in ok, though the Event Log seems to think it has a different number ??.
Log Name: Setup Source: Microsoft-Windows-Servicing Date: 14/10/2023 19:46:46 Event ID: 3 Task Category: (1) Level: Information Keywords: User: SYSTEM Computer: Skyd Description: Package KB5031356 failed to be changed to the Installed state. Status:
Exception code: 0xc000027b <=== could be a wall clock time problem
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"Correctly setting the time zone and manually setting the clock to the correct time fixed the problem."
Start : Run : control.exe # Control Panel view, pin to taskbar
Date and Time control panel Date and Time tab -- "Change time zone" if it is incorrect [Windows installation NEVER sets this correctly!]
Internet Time tab -- Change settings Configure internet time settings Server: time.windows.com "Update Now"
Sometimes, the time server is mis-behaving, and read the error message carefully after clicking "Update Now".
If you dual boot Windows and Linux, they use different time keeping methods. Either you "fix" the time, after switching OSes, or, you change a registry setting to make Windows follow Linux practice, but this has side effects (not all of Windows tolerates this in the code).
Turning off AC power at night to PC, causes the RTC to run off the tiny CR2032 CMOS battery, and if that goes flat, the time can be wrong each day. Keep standby power present, to maintain time while in Soft Off state, until you can buy another CR2032 cell. It's a round disc cell. The socket is tricky. I tried to help someone once, and they pulled the damn battery socket right off the motherboard :-) Don't be that guy, OK.
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There are at least three kinds of updates in motion.
1) SSU Servicing Stack Update - this "authorizes" the incoming updates in a sense
2) Windows Cumulative for October - this packages hundreds of minor changes and CVE fixes
3) .NET baloney slicer - this patches yet more bugs in .NET libraries. - You will see ngen.exe or mscoree in Task Manager, as part of this update, consists of JIT recompiling .NET assemblies for the installed programs. The recompiling of assemblies, can last longer than the .NET code patching.
That's a sample of what is installed. There is a malware scanner thing, that has the same KB number each month. Windows Defender update, some of them, Defender fetches them, and you can manually install them too. Windows Store applications automatically update, and this is not part of Windows Update. If Windows Store disappears or if Metro applications have problems, the build-in "wsreset.exe" can be used to Reset the Store.
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The Macrium Reflect product, Free version, can Clone and can do Full Backups.
While the Free offer will be removed at some point, you can check for an older version. They will eventually remove these. The tool is complicated, and if I tell you to customize and select to download a WADK kit, that'll take a whole nother post to explain. This much executable, is at least a start. Macrium has a manual, if you can find it, and it will explain some of this.
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I have four or five Macrium Reflect Rescue CDs. These are for "bare metal restore", where you buy a new hard drive, and you restore from one of the .MRIMG backups. The WADK kit, is what Macrium uses selectively, to make boot media. The Macrium download process (inside the installed tool), downloads specific tools needed for making media. These are compressed into a ball and stored for later. What they grab, is NOT a full WADK kit. It's just pieces of it.
I also have a Macrium Reflect Rescue USB stick, and that is a high runner for usage in the room. The CDs hardly get used now.
OK, located my film strip. Making rescue media. While never up to date, these will jog some memories.
[Picture] "Download original" for best resolution. If frame is blank, right-click and select "Reload"
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There is a tendency in Windows, to resort to "incantations". The marked items, used by themselves, from an Administrative window, might clean up WinSxS (side by side servicing folder) and the System32 important stuff (sfc scannow). This is actually a "reset Windows Update" script, with the error handling stripped out, plus a little WinSxS servicing tossed in for "flavour".
SC config trustedinstaller start=auto net stop bits net stop wuauserv net stop msiserver net stop cryptsvc net stop appidsvc Ren %Systemroot%\SoftwareDistribution SoftwareDistribution.old Ren %Systemroot%\System32\catroot2 catroot2.old regsvr32.exe /s atl.dll regsvr32.exe /s urlmon.dll regsvr32.exe /s mshtml.dll netsh winsock reset netsh winsock reset proxy rundll32.exe pnpclean.dll,RunDLL_PnpClean /DRIVERS /MAXCLEAN dism /Online /Cleanup-image /ScanHealth \ dism /Online /Cleanup-image /CheckHealth \ dism /Online /Cleanup-image /RestoreHealth \___ Sick OS dism /Online /Cleanup-image /StartComponentCleanup / incantation Sfc /ScanNow / Five lines. net start bits net start wuauserv net start msiserver net start cryptsvc net start appidsvc
This is why, rather than mess with this, I'd rather do a Repair Install and walk away.
1) Do your full backup first. Store on an external drive. Make sure external drive has enough space. This is in case you don't like the mess when you walk into the room later.
2) Start : Run : Winver Select a Windows Installer DVD of matching version.
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For example, if your PC is "stuck at" 21H2, there could be a reason it is stuck there. If you have GMA x4500 graphics (my Optiplex 780), it will try to install 22H2, bad graphics, rolls back. Waste of time.
3) Consequently, if Repair Installing, I select my 21H2 disc (a match of my current version), and while Win10 is running, execute Setup.exe off that DVD disc.
If a person is confident their hardware is ultra-modern (sticking an HD6450 GPU in the Optiplex provided the modernity), then you can simply use the latest Win10 download (22H2 is the last one) for your Repair/Upgrade Install.
Doing the Repair Install, is slow, but once you've convinced it you are happy with your choices, it can reboot on its own.
And it can change your settings. Most of the settings will be preserved, but, you know how Microsoft is...
Repair installs do not remove Malware. The Malware writers are familiar with Repair Install, and they will just laugh at you. Repair Install is mostly for naive structural problems created by Microsoft.
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Disk drives ? Yes, check them.
WDC Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for Windows
Pointing you here, is in case the WDC one is no longer supported. Ver. 1.37.
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The preview images nearer the bottom of the page, shows the interface. You can do a "Smart Short" for a quick check of a WDC Blue HDD, for example. I do not know whether 1.37 is current enpugh, to handle SMART tables on a WDC SSD drive.
This is why you are using MajorGeeks copy.
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How can a company abandon a tool like that ? dunno.
They really must stop the staff from playing WinXP Solitaire all day long.
I had a close call. The power went off. The next time I started the machine, that update was half-installed :-/ Prepare barf bucket. But, it survived. One of these days, I'm not going to be so lucky.
After an update, do you not get the facility back to take the computer back even more? If that fixes it then you need to make a decision. To be honest, despite what so called experts say, Operating systems which are out of support have a golden age just after support ends before applications stop supporting it, when you get really reliable computer usage, which makes me wonder if all of these basic security fixes might be inadvertently creating bugs that nobody had thought of. Brian
I used to have on windows 7, a program that backed up the registry hives every single day for a month cyclically, however in Windows 10, it won't work complaining of it cannot access the files etc. This program which can restore a copy of the registries has saved me may times in Windows 7. I also do weekly backups to an external drive. So far, there has not been an error which can put me out of business in Windows 7, but still looking for similar in windows 10 that is accessible for blind people. Brian
SAM - HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SAM SECURITY - HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Security software - HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software system - HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System & HKEY_CURRENT_CONFIG default - HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT
Since I did that backup a few days ago, only the SOFTWARE registry file has grown
k:\Windows\System32\config
65536 Oct 14 04:10 SAM 32768 Oct 14 04:10 SECURITY
79167488 Oct 14 04:10 SOFTWARE 79,329,632
14417920 Oct 14 04:10 SYSTEM 524288 Oct 14 04:10 DEFAULT
The structure in "config" folder is more complex than a WinXP folder. While replacing those five files would be a start, there are more Registry files in there than that. There is one for DRIVERS for example. And, there are Registry files in your local account (Home directory). But these are things you don't see in Regedit either.
And yes, permissions and ACLs on files are horribly complex. That's why I have to use devious means to do forensics on stuff.
The drive letter k: in the example, is supposed to have all restrictions removed :-)
I can also examine the actual media, using a Linux Live USB stick. That is how I checked whether the file sizes had changed or not.
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Microsoft has a kind of built-in Registry ERUNT. It's called RegBack and they have switched it off.
Microsoft REGBACK
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To switch on RegBack (Registry Edit) -- this key is not present, so you have to do a New
C:\Windows\System32\config\RegBack DEFAULT SAM SECURITY SOFTWARE SYSTEM
Currently, the RegBack folder is not used in Windows 10, but once you correct the Registry setting, it should work again. The Task named "RegIdleBackup" does not run on a regular basis and does not have a trigger defined.
taskschd.msc # GUI Task Scheduler -- I checked in here, RegIdleBackup has no trigger, must run manually! schtasks.exe /? # Command line Task Scheduler
This command will run the RegBack backup, and collects a sample when the system is quiet.
Examining the output is fun, because there are fifteen files, five are visible, ten are hidden and need "dir /ah" to see them in Command Prompt. The journal files if that is what they are, happen to be empty. There is no reason the five files are not perfectly valid. You could copy all fifteen files over, which might be easier than erasing the .log files in the destination (one folder up).
C:\Windows\System32\config\RegBack> dir
10/16/2023 08:43 AM 421,888 DEFAULT
10/16/2023 08:43 AM 49,152 SAM
10/16/2023 08:43 AM 32,768 SECURITY
10/16/2023 08:43 AM 79,347,712 SOFTWARE
10/16/2023 08:43 AM 13,611,008 SYSTEM
C:\Windows\System32\config\RegBack> dir /ah
10/16/2023 08:43 AM 0 DEFAULT.LOG1
10/16/2023 08:43 AM 0 DEFAULT.LOG2
10/16/2023 08:43 AM 0 SAM.LOG1
10/16/2023 08:43 AM 0 SAM.LOG2
10/16/2023 08:43 AM 0 SECURITY.LOG1
10/16/2023 08:43 AM 0 SECURITY.LOG2
10/16/2023 08:43 AM 0 SOFTWARE.LOG1
10/16/2023 08:43 AM 0 SOFTWARE.LOG2
10/16/2023 08:43 AM 0 SYSTEM.LOG1
10/16/2023 08:43 AM 0 SYSTEM.LOG2
This activity is fine for Level 39 Wizards, right ? It's a good thing they have recipes sprinkled all over the place like toad stools.
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This is a backup program, but I don't see how this is any different than running the Free version of Macrium Reflect. This is not the registry-specific thing like ERUNT I was expecting.
When it comes to CVE Security issues, it's true that 90% of the bugs, require the Black Hat to be in the room with you, typing on your keyboard.
However, the remaining bugs can be serious. For example, just visiting a website owned by Mallory, with a specially crafted WEBP file, can tip over your computer, and Mallory then owns the computer. These are the kind of bugs that can have consequences.
The odd part about the recent exploits, is after the JPG and TIFF library had issues years ago, I thought that special emphasis would be placed on reviewing crap like WEBP. I was wrong! The lesson learned years ago is "don't trust FOSS libraries, without bloody well reviewing the source for hardening issues". Some companies had just accepted FOSS libraries, without even looking inside, which is a definite no-no as a developer. In the C language, there are a few routines that even throw compiler warnings, to not be using the routines because of data sanitizing issues (easy to tip over). This is also why developers may switch to the Rust language, so they won't have to look at C compiler warnings and look at Rust warnings instead :-)
The more things change, the more they remain the same.
Defense in depth is the key. One of the browsers has its own stack smashing detection code. You can also run a third-party AV program (for as long as that is supported on an old OS).
When I shut down my PC last night it went through the usual rigmarole of saying "Do not switch off your PC while we apply updates", which took about 15 minutes.
Then today when I switched it on I got a couple of beeps, the screen stayed black with the rolling rolls and a white text message saying "Updating your system (NN%)"
I have never seen this before and it got stuck on 18% then gave up and said it was backing out the update, more wasted time.
The event log again shows that it was failing with KB5031356 with this information event in SYSTEM -
Log Name: Setup Source: Microsoft-Windows-Servicing Date: 16/10/2023 18:52:42 Event ID: 3 Task Category: (1) Level: Information Keywords: User: SYSTEM Computer: Skyd Description: Package KB5031356 failed to be changed to the Absent state. Status:
0x80070057.
Why can't it just GIVE UP !. KB5031356 clearly has problems and I dont want it. KB5001716 went in OK and that was a Win10 "quality update".
I can just wait until the next cumulative update.
Is there something in the registry that I can change to knock this update into long grass ?.
I suspect tonight and the next time I switch it on it will go through the same nonsense all over again. I don't really want to leave it on 24/7 in order to avoid this hassle.
Why not join the Windows Insider programme and get the next cumulative update much sooner? It is a setting right at the bottom of the updates tab of settings.
Also, I guess you have checked this:
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And, it's worth googling the update number + fails to install
For example, this comes up:
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Some Windows 10 users have been getting an error when trying to install the latest Windows 10 Patch Tuesday update (KB5031356). Microsoft said that some users have encountered Error 8007000D (ERROR_INVALID_DATA); the error can be found in Windows Update under System settings by going to Update History.
Microsoft said that the issue has been resolved with Known Issue Rollback (KIR) and that the fix could take 48 hours from 18:14 P.T. 13 October to propagate automatically to consumer devices and non-managed business devices. If you’re impatient, however, you can take some manual steps to resolve the issue right now.
So it sounds like it should resolve itself if you leave your PC on for the next couple of nights.
I would do a Repair Install, to the same release identified by "winver.exe". A Repair Install, done by executing Setup.exe on the Win10 DVD, keeps your user data and your installed programs. Make sure you have a recent backup, just in case. These things do not normally turn into furballs -- I've done probably a half dozen of these by now (the Optiplex 780 refurb used up a lot of my time).
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If you want to do battle...
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You can hide updates.
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There are two problems with this:
1) Microsoft has a poor track record on the maintenance of utilities of this sort. I'm lookin at you, "setupdiag.exe", which is a diagnostic tool which is supposed to summarize why your Repair Install didn't work and has rolled back. Running that today, it does not do a damn thing. wushowhide is pretty old now, so who knows what shape it is in.
2) Updates have versions
KB5031356 version 1 arrives <=== User hides it
KB5031356 version 2 arrives <=== SURPRISE!
The tool does not know how to hide versions, and if they issue a new version, it is not hidden and can attempt to install.
THis was a M/B+processor+memory upgrade in 2011 and with an OEM dvd of Win7 Pro (32 + 64). I Installed the 32 bit image, and Win Xp got the heave-ho.
Current Win10 Pro/32 was the freebie using the media creation tool, which I believe MSoft have recently withdrawn.
If I had to do a Repair Install, how would I do it without a Win10 dvd or usb drive ?. I still have the media creation tool on a USB drive but is that all I need ?.
Luckily today it booted up without problems so I will just wait for the next cumulative patch so see what happens.
Look for "setup.exe" on the top level of the partition containing the goods.
Can you view the stick in File Explorer ?
Directory: D:\temp
Mode LastWriteTime Length Name
---- ------------- ------ ---- d----- 9/8/2022 4:08 AM boot d----- 9/8/2022 4:08 AM efi d----- 10/22/2022 8:44 AM sources <=== 4,735,242,773 bytes in sources d----- 9/8/2022 4:08 AM support
-a---- 9/8/2022 4:07 AM 128 autorun.inf
-a---- 9/8/2022 4:07 AM 413738 bootmgr
-a---- 9/8/2022 4:07 AM 1541648 bootmgr.efi
-a---- 9/8/2022 4:07 AM 74184 setup.exe <=== run this, to start Repair Install
Inside sources\install.esd are seven folders (for a MediaCreationTool version), plus a [1].xml file. Examining the XML file gives as an example...
10.0.19041.1682 # release stamp (forensics via 7ZIP "open inside")
You would hope it would say 19045 for 22H2, but apparently that's not how they have stamped it. ( winver.exe shows your current installed OS details. } The files used:
Name: Windows10-x64-22H2.iso en-us version, I am in Canada Size: 4,783,996,928 bytes (4562 MiB) Rather large for a seven-folder version disc SHA1: A516A7BF07AF9C762A9D9F46E0D2C40CEACB4F4C
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