TOT - Web pages design question

[The Natural Philosopher]

we all detest javascript, but its the only game in town.

The moment you type 'onmouseover' its jabbaschit..

[Huge]

Jesus, do I have to explain *everything*?

You have a problem. You decide to solve it with PHP. Now you have two problems.

(IOW, the original problem, plus dealing with the evil bletcherous bag of s**te that is PHP.)

[Mike Barnes]

I am not He, but in this case you do need to explain.

That's not my experience. Given similar problems, I've found that the PHP solution works perfectly. Then I have *no* problems. It might be considered an evil bletcherous bag of s**te, but it does actually work perfectly on the sites where I use it. Unless you can point me to some fault that I wasn't previously aware of.

[Mike Barnes]

IMO JQuery does a pretty good job of civilising it a bit.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Until wherever the Jquery scripts are being loaded from crashes, or gets hacked.

I wont trust any third party site - my websites usually are 100% standalone, and are a lot faster for it.

The less javascript the better.

[The Natural Philosopher]

It's an evil bletcherous bag of s**te, but it does actually work. And very efficiently, too.

And best of all once it does work, it works for all browsers!

Unlike client side scripts...OK the html may not work, but at least it spits out the same HTML:.

[Mike Barnes]

I agree that standalone is good so I download the minimised JQuery source (< 100 KB) and upload it to each site where it's used.

Agreed but if you want an active page, it's the least bad option. And jQuery allows you to do exactly what you want with much less JavaScript code.

[Another Dave]

Amazing. It seems I've been doing it right all along.

Another Dave (the OP)

[Dave Liquorice]

And should be run out of town. All I see java doing is slowing sites down or breaking them such that basic native browser things like links and showing an image don't work...

It's certainly not impossible to have a site work just as well (if not better) without javascript. The BBC News site is a good example, far easier to navigate and quicker to load if you disable javascript.

Depends what you want the mouse over to do. CSS will do a button colour change no problem. B-)

[Adrian Caspersz]

1. Use microsoft word ...

[Tim Streater]

Don't confuse javascript with java.

[Tim Watts]

OTOH GoogleMaps is pure AJAX and AJAX needs JavaScript...

[spuorgelgoog]

Powerpoint.

In Comic Sans and Colonna.

Upload everything as graphics sized for a 24" monitor.

Owain

[Tim Streater]

And indeed as does any page that, as you type, offers completions (such as the search widget in Wikipedia).

[The Natural Philosopher]

Thats more source than a whole small web site...

I think writing your own is the least bad. At least you can support it...

[The Natural Philosopher]

Its still fundamentally jabbashit.

The whole DOM model and the concept of event driven code... onmouseover-"this.style.color='red'" is jabbashit..

[The Natural Philosopher]

Use Quark and make all pages PDFS. At leasts they will look the way you designed em.

[Tim Streater]

Anything that's not an MS proprietary extension is fairly safe. I agree one has to be careful and look at books, the HTML standards, and various websites for safety.

IE6? WTF is that?

parseInt ('6') is what you want. I get that from time to time but it doesn't take me three days to see wot I've done.

[Dave Liquorice]

change

dropdown

Sorry, brain moving faster than fingers...

[polygonum]

Does anyone still use Quark?

I thought InDesign had rather wiped it out.