This is just great - who's the guilty one

[JoeJoe]

[Invisible Man]

6 of them by the look of it:

four people were subsequently dealt with for the initial theft of lighting equipment from the site.

2 people done for kidnapping. Obviously they should have reported that they had caught a suspected criminal and contacted the police

Fortunately we do not have rule by lynch mob.

[ARWadsworth]

And the kidnappers pleaded guilty. So there was not much chance of a not guilty verdict.

Adam

[mark]

When does 'citizens arrest' become kidnapping?

mark

[Clot]

This was an absolute godsend for the police.

They didn't have to find the theives; that was done for them and also getting another successful statistic in kidnapping. Bloody typical. They should have thanked the two involved and a minor ticking off if they must.

What does it do for Joe Public/ Police relationships?

[Ed Sirett]

Something does not add up. If they had reported to the police that the crime was in progress and/or that they had made a citizens' arrest the police would/should have responded promptly.

The fact that they got a real sentence and not just the suspended one suggests that there were more facts (not reported) that were taken into account in this case, by the judge/magistrates.

[Clive George]

Plod said "it had been established that the intruders had left the scene 20 minutes before the call". Also, "took one offender in a van to the home of another suspect" isn't just a citizen's arrest, where you hold them and wait for the police.

Which supports Ed's supposition.

[Alang]

When they pleaded guilty. It's quite possible they could have claimed a citizens arrest but since their brief didn't advise them to take that option I don't think all the facts have come out. The news report is missing details

[dennis]

When they kidnap them and take them elsewhere.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Invisible Man saying something like:

That useless bunch of tossers?

[Dave Liquorice]

Well ish, you can make a citizens arrest and take them to a police station or magistrate to face charges.

Mind you the whole thing around "citizens arrest" is right tangled mess:

these two put one chap in a van took him to his mates then had a fight no wonder they got done for kidnap. If they just used reasonable force (what ever that is) to hold him, called the police and waited they probably wouldn't have attracted the kidnap charge. They might have got unlawful arrest instead...

[Dave]

OK, I am a bit stupid here. If I use reasonable force to undertake a citizens arrest, under what conditions can I be charged under unlawful arrest?

[The Medway Handyman]

Very common with newspapers. My daughter was involved in a carbon monoxide related incident last week. Local press headline was "Were couple poisoned?" with no mention of carbon monoxide whatsoever. The levels were so high the ambulance crews were taken in to have their blood levels checked.

They got the ages of the couple completely wrong and described tubing one patient & using a machine to take over his breathing as "he was given first aid". No mention of him being taken to a local hosptal with a hyperbaric chamber at all.

Would have been a much better story for the paper if they had reported the actual facts.

[Clot]

As I see it, pretty well any. It gives the Police the chance to gain another successful prosecution. They do not seem to worry about their repect in the community. Statistics are what counts, sod reason.

The lack of the Police attending to relevant issues is what causes these situations. "We'll be round in a couple of days to sort this out." Just the fuel that causes genuine law abiding wronged citizens to take things "into their own hands".

We need a major cultural change; getting rid of Police stats. might be one. Getting rid of the CPS would certainly aid a return to a better society. That organisation is stuffed full of folk who only have concern for themselves and ensure that only clear cut cases get to court. Its very concept at inception was dubious. It means that the honest Joe or minor transgressor will be hauled before the court but the time served crim who knows the ropes will not be brought before the court because s/he or the solicitor knows the caveats that they will get out by. This again winds the Police up.

The CPS was set up in the 1970s from recollection and we still haven't learnt what a crass mistake that was.

[chris French]

Situations where say it was deemed that you didn't have grounds for a reasonable belief that the arrestee had committed an arrestable offence.

Or where the offence is not an 'arrestable offence' - basically one which the maximum sentence is > 5 years imprisonment (though there are lots of exceptiosn)

[Invisible Man]

Remember a case where a fast food chain got sued for arresting someone who offered a forged note. At that time at least it was not an arrestable offence.

[Dave Liquorice]

Basically when you make the arrest for a "non-arrestable offence". The defintion of the latter is "a bit wooly", which is what makes the whole thing a minefield.

[Steve Walker]

All well and good, but as an average sort of citizen, if I see someone committing a crime, how the hell am I to know what the current sentencing guidelines are and what exceptions there are? I probably won't even know which specific crimes they are commiting, with the wierd and wonderful system of law that we have.

SteveW

[Dave Liquorice]

That's why the best advice is to gather evidence, description, distinctive features, transport type/make/colours/numbers etc and call the Police to deal with it.

[Frank Erskine]

...then forget about it, because the police won't do anything...