The Eurobuilding

Following hot on the heels of the introduction of new wiring colours to harmonise British and European electrical installations, the EU is launching a consultation process into further integrating building construction methods across Europe.

Plumbing.

The marking of hot and cold taps with country- or language-specific designations such as 'H' & 'C' is an impediment to the free trade of plumbing fitting within the EU and does not accord with official EU policies on multilingualism. The EU is also concerned about the safety implications of a disparity of markings within the EU. The existing alphabetic-based legends are also contrary to the EU's policy on social inclusion for the literacy challenged. Accordingly, the Commission will introduce a Directive to ensure that all hot and cold taps are marked with Euro-standard pictograms of a snowflake for cold and a thermometer for hot. All new taps fitted after 4/2006 will have to comply with the Directive. Existing taps do not have to be replaced, but where a mix of old and new taps is present on an installation, an approved warning notice in all Community languages must be displayed adjacent to the mains water supply point.

The Commission is also concerned that the practice of putting the cold tap on the right is both handist and disablist, discriminating as it does against left-handed and one- or -no-handed persons. The Commission will in a forthcoming Euro Water Directive require all taps fitted from 4/2008 to be of an Approved Euro Tap design with equal access to both hot and cold tap-handles from either side together with a child-proof temperature limiter.

Windows.

The use of outward-opening windows in some countries and inward-opening in others presents obvious safety risks of persons inadvertently falling out of windows. The Commission believes that significant economic benefits could be gained by the opening up of the first fix and replacement window market across the EU and accordingly will harmonise window styles and sizes across the Community. The approved Eurowindow (Eurofenetre, Euroausstellderstandardsicherheitharmonisiertesinneresfenster) will be a top-hung inward-opening triple-glazed window with inbuilt stress-tested mounting points for nationally-approved window box planters and must be of sufficient dimensions if above the ground floor to permit the access and egress of a Eurostandard piano whilst incorporating a householder safety lock which can only be over-ridden by the insertion of an appropriately-authorised Euroidentitycard. The Eurowindow (Eurofenetre, Euroausstellderstandardsicherheitharmonisiertesinneresfenster) will be available in two versions, one with additional weatherproofing (Britain, northern France, Netherlands) and one with ecologically advanced rainwater collection and storage facilities (Spain, Italy, Portugal).

British representatives from the ODPM's office will be studying French construction practice by participating in a fact-finding visit to the typical French department of Guadeloupe.

Owain

Reply to
Owain
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There must be some very nice totty in Guadeloupe. I am so there!

Arthur.

Reply to
Arthur

As it happens Norway is not AFAIK in the EU. About 80% was completely convincing though.

Reply to
Ed Sirett

Well, I for one keep toying with the idea of getting some European plug sockets in the kitchen. I have one in the dining room for various reasons and it's so much easier to plug things in and out of. Don't see what all the hassle is about whenever the E word comes up.

Reply to
Craig Graham

The biggest hassle is doing inappropiate things for the sake of it really.

With the underlyng asumption that the EEC memebr wants to be able to buy exacrtly te same crap anywhere in teh community, so if you go to Gdansk, and buy a sausage it is as insdistunguishably as dull as the Great British Banger.

The thought that a particular window standard is appropiate from Lapland to Greece appals me.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

No, you just have to say the truth about the sausages. Like the local Tesco can no longer sell "Cumberland Sausage" on its deli that's been imported from France, for example.

And they've not gone as far as they could have done; there was talk a while back that our sausages shouldn't really be called meat sausages. Because they're not. But there was too much resistance to do anything about it, and if they had done then people would have complained they were being denied the crap that supermarkets like to sell.

What "inappropriate things for the sake of it" did you have in mind, specifically?

Depends what you mean by window standard. Obviously insulation needs to be better up north, and it was my understanding that triple glazing was standard. I'd need a decent reference to convince me that the EU has imposed triple glazing on Greece.

Reply to
Craig Graham

"Craig Graham" wrote | No, you just have to say the truth about the sausages. Like the | local Tesco can no longer sell "Cumberland Sausage" on its deli | that's been imported from France, for example.

But they sell Irish Cheddar.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

The trouble is if you let petty bureacrats invent reasons for their own existence, and political idealists make decisions, thats pretty much what happens..

It starts like ' it would be a good thing for europe if there was uniform standards that mean that a product that is of acceptable quality in one part of the EEC is of acceptable quality everywhere' So far so good. Harmonisation of standards. Less wasted effort Prooecting The Consumer etc etc.

It ends up as the death of local industry. Because instead of sayng 'here is one standard that youi MAY choose to conform to if you want to sell EEC wide' it cbecomes 'here is one standard that you WILL conform to even if selling to your next door neighbour'.

Technically, If I shoot a rabbit, skin and gut it, and sell it to you, I am breaking the law as I understand it. By rights I ought to take it ona

120mile round trip to the correctly certified slaughterhouse, wriggling and kicking, and in fear for its life, get it ritually slaughtered there, transport it back, probably selaed in plastic with some certification on it, and sell it to you that way. 5 days old, at ten times the price and full of adrenaline and tasting disgusting.

I am a confirmed Europhile - I believe in sane integration to the limit. But the enforcement of a billion petty regulations is not the way to go.

All that rabbit needs is a sticker saying 'not sold under the EEC certification of sanitary purity 2004, eat at your own risk, sign here, price 50p.'

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

"Ed Sirett" wrote | Owain wrote: | > Following hot on the heels of the introduction of new wiring colours | > to harmonise British and European electrical installations, the EU | > is launching a consultation process into further integrating | > building construction methods across Europe. | As it happens Norway is not AFAIK in the EU.

Where did I mention Norway?

| About 80% was completely convincing though.

Thank you. It was a moment of silliness that I decided to share. (I have many more that I don't).

Owain

Reply to
Owain

"Owain" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@nnrp-t71-03.news.uk.clara.net:

But Cheddar refers to the cheddaring process - which has a long history of being done all over the world. Similarly we legitimately have Méthode Champenoise - perhaps it (the cheese) should be called Irish Cheese Méthode Cheddaroise?

Reply to
Rod Hewitt

In message , Owain writes

This is one occasion where you could have sent it to alt.wrecks.caravans (using a false id and not x-posting, of course)

Reply to
geoff

Americans are taught the basic concepts of democracy, we're not. The result is that people are willing to give away the very fundaments of it, piece by piece, without so much as a squeak of objection.

Regards, NT

Reply to
N. Thornton

But how do I know that you know what you're doing and that the rabbit is safe to eat? For all I know it's roadkill and has been contaminated with some nasty bugs during preparation.

Surely a butcher can get whatever certification is needed to slaughter animals for human consumption? The local butcher here sells game; I'd be suprised if that's not locally caught and killed.

And I gather game is supposed to be hung unrefrigerated for a few days when you eat it. Apparently some people like the taste of decomposition. Wasn't keen when I tried it myself, but the 5 days from the slaughterhouse isn't such a big deal even if I accepted your claim of 60 miles to the nearest one. Certainly cattle are shipped around in bulk for economic reasons I only dimly understand, but I think these don't apply to small quantity produce like game.

But I gather such disclaimers aren't legal.

Reply to
Craig Graham

My point exactly.

>
Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Why?

You don't, like with anything else you take it on trust.

What, you can't tell ehether it's been run over or not?!?!

a) Fascist Tony and his Cronies will get in the way. b) Game is likely to have been taken locally, but I don't know what the legalities of selling such are.

Depends as you say below on individual taste. The same goes for stuff meat you buy at the butcher or supermarket.

It's possible. Benito Blair's mob strongly prefer large slaughterhouses over small establishments, and there are now

*far* fewer than there were.

Europe, the establishment that gave us 3 trillion extra pen- pushers and officious abstrads for no benefit.

Still - uk.rec.food+drink.misc is probably a better forum!!

Reply to
Jerry Built

There's a bit more than blind trust. Buy it from a proper butcher, and if anything's wrong then environmental health will go for it (assuming you bother reporting it- I did recently). Buy it from an individual, then nobody can do a thing about it- even if you can track the person down there's no proof of anything. So all other things being equal, the butcher has more incentive to get it right.

Now add the fact that most sizeable firms will be ISO9001; they have to document what they do and they are checked to make sure they do it. I believe the public have a right, if they wish, to see the procedures and possibly the audit reports so barring cockups you know what's going on.

Okay, most people will take it on trust that the food industry is doing its job properly but there are mechanisms for those who want to know what it is everyone is actually doing, and there are mechanisms for catching cockups. So taking it on trust that food from a real shop/store is safer than food from an unknown and untraceable individual is more akin to taking it on trust that the Earth is round than taking it on trust there is a God, for instance. What one person sees as unnecessary beaurocracy, others see as necessary transparency, traceability and accountability.

Much roadkill is not completely flattened; you could sell pieces of the rabbit without anyone being able to tell roadkill from hunted.

This is a high profile butcher right in the town centre. When he has game in, he has a big board in the street outside advertising it. He's been there for some time, and if there was a problem with it it's highly unlikely that it would have gone unnoticed!

Reply to
Craig Graham

What- you want the right to be able to sign a disclaimer to say you accept the risks of doing something that may kill you want you want to do it anyway?

I'm pretty glad for the present situation. Anything that is permitted under contract law will be used by con artists. I for one do not read and analyze every word of the small print when signing an agreement for something. Although really I should, I don't have the time and I think many others are in the same boat. The laws governing unfair and illegal terms limit the extent to which people like me can be ripped off.

Reply to
Craig Graham

ISO900x is not the be-all and end-all that people imagine it to be,

The word "quality" is bandied around and people assume that this means that something is good.

In fact, as you say, it is simply a measure of doing what you say you are going to do.

However, having been involved in the past in the production of a Quality Manual for ISO900x for a firm, in effect there is a lot of BS surrounding it.

It is perfectly permissible to designate a process or procedure as being uncontrolled and therefore not subject to documentation or possible periodic inspection.

There are firms who have large amounts of their activity as uncontrolled and just have a small number as controlled. They can get their sticker on this basis....

Inspection is sporadic at best...

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Reply to
Andy Hall

But you put your blind trust in most other things, as we all do.

Eh? Why not? Of course you can do something about it!

Strewth. [ snip ]

So someone's going to "sell pieces of rabbit" - and someone else will buy it? Not in the real world. Also, in the real world, your game has been (mostly) shot. This causes unhygenic leakiness of the guts etc., and extra-tasty bits just as you get with animals hit on the road.

You miss my point. I was not disputing the legality of selling game, just the legalities of doing so.

This is way OT for this NG, if you want to talk more, I should think that uk.rec.food+drink.misc is an appropriate forum, I'll be happy to continue there.

J.B.

Reply to
Jerry Built

But it IS documented what you are doing, and it can be checked. Without this, anything can be going on behind the scenes. It's not perfect but it's better than nothing- and probably balances safety/quality against beaurocratic load.

I wasn't greatly involved when we went ISO, but I know we fluffed it first time round because procedures weren't sufficiently comprehensive, so there is a minimum level of activity that must be specified. You can't give BSI a single page listing all your processes as being uncontrolled and get the sticker.

It seems we have to have a full BSI audit annually, and smaller third-party audits between them. But the third party audits do seem to fall by the wayside.

Reply to
Craig Graham

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