The Eurobuilding

Following hot on the heels of the introduction of new wiring colours to harmonise British and European electrical installations, the EU is launching a consultation process into further integrating building construction methods across Europe.
Plumbing.
The marking of hot and cold taps with country- or language-specific designations such as 'H' & 'C' is an impediment to the free trade of plumbing fitting within the EU and does not accord with official EU policies on multilingualism. The EU is also concerned about the safety implications of a disparity of markings within the EU. The existing alphabetic-based legends are also contrary to the EU's policy on social inclusion for the literacy challenged. Accordingly, the Commission will introduce a Directive to ensure that all hot and cold taps are marked with Euro-standard pictograms of a snowflake for cold and a thermometer for hot. All new taps fitted after 4/2006 will have to comply with the Directive. Existing taps do not have to be replaced, but where a mix of old and new taps is present on an installation, an approved warning notice in all Community languages must be displayed adjacent to the mains water supply point.
The Commission is also concerned that the practice of putting the cold tap on the right is both handist and disablist, discriminating as it does against left-handed and one- or -no-handed persons. The Commission will in a forthcoming Euro Water Directive require all taps fitted from 4/2008 to be of an Approved Euro Tap design with equal access to both hot and cold tap-handles from either side together with a child-proof temperature limiter.
Windows.
The use of outward-opening windows in some countries and inward-opening in others presents obvious safety risks of persons inadvertently falling out of windows. The Commission believes that significant economic benefits could be gained by the opening up of the first fix and replacement window market across the EU and accordingly will harmonise window styles and sizes across the Community. The approved Eurowindow (Eurofenetre, Euroausstellderstandardsicherheitharmonisiertesinneresfenster) will be a top-hung inward-opening triple-glazed window with inbuilt stress-tested mounting points for nationally-approved window box planters and must be of sufficient dimensions if above the ground floor to permit the access and egress of a Eurostandard piano whilst incorporating a householder safety lock which can only be over-ridden by the insertion of an appropriately-authorised Euroidentitycard. The Eurowindow (Eurofenetre, Euroausstellderstandardsicherheitharmonisiertesinneresfenster) will be available in two versions, one with additional weatherproofing (Britain, northern France, Netherlands) and one with ecologically advanced rainwater collection and storage facilities (Spain, Italy, Portugal).
British representatives from the ODPM's office will be studying French construction practice by participating in a fact-finding visit to the typical French department of Guadeloupe.
Owain
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There must be some very nice totty in Guadeloupe. I am so there!
Arthur.

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On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:22:26 +0100, Owain wrote:

<Snip> As it happens Norway is not AFAIK in the EU. About 80% was completely convincing though.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
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Ed Sirett wrote:

Well, I for one keep toying with the idea of getting some European plug sockets in the kitchen. I have one in the dining room for various reasons and it's so much easier to plug things in and out of. Don't see what all the hassle is about whenever the E word comes up.
--
Dr. Craig Graham, Software Engineer
Advanced Analysis and Integration Limited, UK. http://www.aail.co.uk /
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Craig Graham wrote:

The biggest hassle is doing inappropiate things for the sake of it really.
With the underlyng asumption that the EEC memebr wants to be able to buy exacrtly te same crap anywhere in teh community, so if you go to Gdansk, and buy a sausage it is as insdistunguishably as dull as the Great British Banger.
The thought that a particular window standard is appropiate from Lapland to Greece appals me.
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

No, you just have to say the truth about the sausages. Like the local Tesco can no longer sell "Cumberland Sausage" on its deli that's been imported from France, for example.
And they've not gone as far as they could have done; there was talk a while back that our sausages shouldn't really be called meat sausages. Because they're not. But there was too much resistance to do anything about it, and if they had done then people would have complained they were being denied the crap that supermarkets like to sell.
What "inappropriate things for the sake of it" did you have in mind, specifically?

Depends what you mean by window standard. Obviously insulation needs to be better up north, and it was my understanding that triple glazing was standard. I'd need a decent reference to convince me that the EU has imposed triple glazing on Greece.
--
Dr. Craig Graham, Software Engineer
Advanced Analysis and Integration Limited, UK. http://www.aail.co.uk /
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"Craig Graham" wrote | No, you just have to say the truth about the sausages. Like the | local Tesco can no longer sell "Cumberland Sausage" on its deli | that's been imported from France, for example.
But they sell Irish Cheddar.
Owain
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But Cheddar refers to the cheddaring process - which has a long history of being done all over the world. Similarly we legitimately have Mthode Champenoise - perhaps it (the cheese) should be called Irish Cheese Mthode Cheddaroise?
--
Rod

www.annalaurie.co.uk
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Craig Graham wrote:

The trouble is if you let petty bureacrats invent reasons for their own existence, and political idealists make decisions, thats pretty much what happens..
It starts like ' it would be a good thing for europe if there was uniform standards that mean that a product that is of acceptable quality in one part of the EEC is of acceptable quality everywhere' So far so good. Harmonisation of standards. Less wasted effort Prooecting The Consumer etc etc.
It ends up as the death of local industry. Because instead of sayng 'here is one standard that youi MAY choose to conform to if you want to sell EEC wide' it cbecomes 'here is one standard that you WILL conform to even if selling to your next door neighbour'.
Technically, If I shoot a rabbit, skin and gut it, and sell it to you, I am breaking the law as I understand it. By rights I ought to take it ona 120mile round trip to the correctly certified slaughterhouse, wriggling and kicking, and in fear for its life, get it ritually slaughtered there, transport it back, probably selaed in plastic with some certification on it, and sell it to you that way. 5 days old, at ten times the price and full of adrenaline and tasting disgusting.
I am a confirmed Europhile - I believe in sane integration to the limit. But the enforcement of a billion petty regulations is not the way to go.
All that rabbit needs is a sticker saying 'not sold under the EEC certification of sanitary purity 2004, eat at your own risk, sign here, price 50p.'
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Americans are taught the basic concepts of democracy, we're not. The result is that people are willing to give away the very fundaments of it, piece by piece, without so much as a squeak of objection.
Regards, NT
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But how do I know that you know what you're doing and that the rabbit is safe to eat? For all I know it's roadkill and has been contaminated with some nasty bugs during preparation.
Surely a butcher can get whatever certification is needed to slaughter animals for human consumption? The local butcher here sells game; I'd be suprised if that's not locally caught and killed.
And I gather game is supposed to be hung unrefrigerated for a few days when you eat it. Apparently some people like the taste of decomposition. Wasn't keen when I tried it myself, but the 5 days from the slaughterhouse isn't such a big deal even if I accepted your claim of 60 miles to the nearest one. Certainly cattle are shipped around in bulk for economic reasons I only dimly understand, but I think these don't apply to small quantity produce like game.

But I gather such disclaimers aren't legal.
--
Dr. Craig Graham, Software Engineer
Advanced Analysis and Integration Limited, UK. http://www.aail.co.uk /
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Craig Graham wrote:

My point exactly.

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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

What- you want the right to be able to sign a disclaimer to say you accept the risks of doing something that may kill you want you want to do it anyway?
I'm pretty glad for the present situation. Anything that is permitted under contract law will be used by con artists. I for one do not read and analyze every word of the small print when signing an agreement for something. Although really I should, I don't have the time and I think many others are in the same boat. The laws governing unfair and illegal terms limit the extent to which people like me can be ripped off.
--
Dr. Craig Graham, Software Engineer
Advanced Analysis and Integration Limited, UK. http://www.aail.co.uk /
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"Ed Sirett" wrote | Owain wrote: | > Following hot on the heels of the introduction of new wiring colours | > to harmonise British and European electrical installations, the EU | > is launching a consultation process into further integrating | > building construction methods across Europe. | As it happens Norway is not AFAIK in the EU.
Where did I mention Norway?
| About 80% was completely convincing though.
Thank you. It was a moment of silliness that I decided to share. (I have many more that I don't).
Owain
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This is one occasion where you could have sent it to alt.wrecks.caravans (using a false id and not x-posting, of course)
--
geoff

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Craig Graham wrote:

Why?
You don't, like with anything else you take it on trust.

What, you can't tell ehether it's been run over or not?!?!

a) Fascist Tony and his Cronies will get in the way. b) Game is likely to have been taken locally, but I don't know what the legalities of selling such are.

Depends as you say below on individual taste. The same goes for stuff meat you buy at the butcher or supermarket.

It's possible. Benito Blair's mob strongly prefer large slaughterhouses over small establishments, and there are now *far* fewer than there were.

Europe, the establishment that gave us 3 trillion extra pen- pushers and officious abstrads for no benefit.
Still - uk.rec.food+drink.misc is probably a better forum!!
--

J.B.

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Jerry Built wrote:

There's a bit more than blind trust. Buy it from a proper butcher, and if anything's wrong then environmental health will go for it (assuming you bother reporting it- I did recently). Buy it from an individual, then nobody can do a thing about it- even if you can track the person down there's no proof of anything. So all other things being equal, the butcher has more incentive to get it right.
Now add the fact that most sizeable firms will be ISO9001; they have to document what they do and they are checked to make sure they do it. I believe the public have a right, if they wish, to see the procedures and possibly the audit reports so barring cockups you know what's going on.
Okay, most people will take it on trust that the food industry is doing its job properly but there are mechanisms for those who want to know what it is everyone is actually doing, and there are mechanisms for catching cockups. So taking it on trust that food from a real shop/store is safer than food from an unknown and untraceable individual is more akin to taking it on trust that the Earth is round than taking it on trust there is a God, for instance. What one person sees as unnecessary beaurocracy, others see as necessary transparency, traceability and accountability.

Much roadkill is not completely flattened; you could sell pieces of the rabbit without anyone being able to tell roadkill from hunted.

This is a high profile butcher right in the town centre. When he has game in, he has a big board in the street outside advertising it. He's been there for some time, and if there was a problem with it it's highly unlikely that it would have gone unnoticed!
--
Dr. Craig Graham, Software Engineer
Advanced Analysis and Integration Limited, UK. http://www.aail.co.uk /
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On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:20:33 +0100, "Craig Graham"

ISO900x is not the be-all and end-all that people imagine it to be,
The word "quality" is bandied around and people assume that this means that something is good.
In fact, as you say, it is simply a measure of doing what you say you are going to do.
However, having been involved in the past in the production of a Quality Manual for ISO900x for a firm, in effect there is a lot of BS surrounding it.
It is perfectly permissible to designate a process or procedure as being uncontrolled and therefore not subject to documentation or possible periodic inspection.
There are firms who have large amounts of their activity as uncontrolled and just have a small number as controlled. They can get their sticker on this basis....
Inspection is sporadic at best...
.andy
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Andy Hall wrote:

But it IS documented what you are doing, and it can be checked. Without this, anything can be going on behind the scenes. It's not perfect but it's better than nothing- and probably balances safety/quality against beaurocratic load.
I wasn't greatly involved when we went ISO, but I know we fluffed it first time round because procedures weren't sufficiently comprehensive, so there is a minimum level of activity that must be specified. You can't give BSI a single page listing all your processes as being uncontrolled and get the sticker.

It seems we have to have a full BSI audit annually, and smaller third-party audits between them. But the third party audits do seem to fall by the wayside.
--
Dr. Craig Graham, Software Engineer
Advanced Analysis and Integration Limited, UK. http://www.aail.co.uk /
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On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:39:43 +0100, "Craig Graham"

Yes, but the point is that you are not required to include *everything* or anything much at all. If it is not a controlled procedure in the quality manual it isn't subject to inspection.

No , but you'd be suprised at how much can be left out that can be highly relevant to the business but uncontrolled.

You don't have to go to BSI to get ISO900x certification of course......
.andy
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