stud walls

Hi,
I've read the uk diy wiki section for stud walls but I didn't see anything about how to fix the studs to the base and head plates. I thought you were supposed to put two nails through at angles but I have never had much success in getting the nail to go where I want without splitting the wood. Is there a trick to this or a better way?
Could you use a couple of corner braces like this instead? http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Structural/Builders+Metalwork/Corner+Brace+50+mm/d210/sd2797/p88945
I'm about to make a partition wall. If you divide a room with such a wall, do you just follow the ceiling and floorboard joists regardless of the position of the existing walls? Or should you try to get the new wall perpendicular the existing walls with a try square? What if the room isn't a true square, then at least one end will not meet at 90 degrees. Is it just a matter of trying to get it to meet as near to 90 degrees as possible?
TIA
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

To answer your second question first, make your wall dead square, true and vertical, regardless of the room.
Second, if nailing is causing you trouble, how about some big screws. Try something like 6mm * 100mm turbogold from Screwfix. They're self drilling screws, but drill the stud at 6mm then whack them home with a power driver.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:33:07 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@gglz.com"

Hi,
I have heard a lot of good things about turbo gold, most from the Medway handyman. I see Toolstation sell reisser screws, which look very similar. They have the anti-split "slot" near the point and grooves to help countersink the head. However, I think the tubogold has a rifled shank, which the reisser does not.
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Screws+Fixings/Reisser+Screws/d90/sd2716
Has anyone any experience of these?
I guess there is still a knack in drilling so that you go through the base of the upright into the sole plate, rather than through the side of the upright but perhaps that's just down to experience?
Thanks.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

If you build the partition flat on the floor and then lift it into position you can save a lot of time and effort. Make sure it's undersize by 10mm and pack it out at top and sides before fixing. Screwing is miles better than nailing.
If you really want to build it in place then slant screw instead of slant nailing, these screws are good for framing, very easy to drive and resist splitting: http://www.screwfix.com/prods/93282

You'll be there all week if you start messing about with those.

No need to follow the joists, the boards will bear the weight, put the partition where you want it.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's bollocks
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

How can a screw resist splitting?
[g]
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Because the tip of the screw is shaped and sharpened to work like a drill.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In article

The ScrewTites don't try to drill through, they have narrow shanks with sharp edged threads, a bit like chipboard screws but only on the first part of the shank, the rest is bare. They're not trying to force a lot of material out of the way. Perfect for framing, easy pull in and very little driving force so more screws per battery.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's bollocks
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I have done two partition walls before. I did one by lying it flat on the floor. I'm not sure why I didn't lie the other one flat, perhaps there was not enough space, but I had it at an angle, so that I could access the underneath of the base plate. Those times because I had easy access to the top and bottom, I was able to screw directly through the base plate into the stud, and the same with the noggins: I screwed straight through. I didn't use any fancy screws, just "normal" ones.

These look really good for framing, for all the reasons you gave in your second post. I'll certainly look at using those this time.

Perhaps I misread the wiki? I thought they had to go into the joist in the floor and the joist in the roof to hold it secure? I suppose that unless it's a very heavy wall, the floorboards would support its weight, but wouldn't you need to secure the top to something? OTOH I suppose that once built it should be pretty rigid unless it is a very long wall. I suppose you could use frame or hammer fixings to secure the sides to the existing walls, presuming they are brick rather than more plasterboard!
Thanks.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Stud walls sit on top of floorboards of all types no problem. However, except for very short walls you cant count on them being rigid enough to be ok with no top fixing, and ceiling plasterboard isnt strong enough. If the wall misses all the joists above it, the classic way is to lift a few floorboards and fit noggings above the partition wall, and fix to them. There are other options at times, for example if the new wall's only a couple of inches away from overhead joists it can be fixed with a little metal bracket buried in the ceilng plaster.
NT
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

On budget tools (like mine) I could drive twice as many of those per battery than I could on Turbogolds.

I didn't write the wiki ;-). Although my experience is with clyde built tenement flooring and lath/plaster ceilings, I've not had any bother placing the foot plate on boards only and expect you would find the same.
If you can fix securely into the walls then the top fixings only have to handle a little wobble room and are just there to stiffen things up. If it's a single piece or well jointed top plate then a few fixings into the ceiling will stiffen things up nicely, they don't carry any weight. From memory, last one done had simple plaster fixings into the ceiling every metre or so and was very rigid. Ah, memory failed, I fixed a light 18x70 batten to the ceiling with PB fixings and then screwed the pre made stud framework into that once squared up.
Note that this idea only works with a pre made framework, I'd prefer not to be lurking under a 100x50 suspended by a few PB fixings while working (although it could be propped).
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's bollocks
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I once saw Tommy Walsh and Big Al doing it using a humungous nail gun. Sort of instantly shoots a long nail in, then makes a curious whirring sound as if it's chuckling to itself.( Love to know how those things work :)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Paslode IM350 probably. Fires a 90mm round wire nail
The large body contains a piston (about 50mm diameter), and uses a butane gas cartridge to drive the piston. The whirring noise is the fan which clears the combustion gases after firing a nail.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That's me sorted. Thanks!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 13/07/2010 23:28, snipped-for-privacy@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk wrote:

Gas nailer probably - or if it had a hose on it, then a pneumatic framing nailer.
Details of the various types here:
http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/nailer.htm
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 13/07/2010 22:05, Fred wrote:

Skew, (or some people call it "tosh" nailing) is the normal way. There is a knack however. Getting the vertical to not move during nailing is one trick. To help here you can either have a spare nogging cut that you can put in place against the head or base rail to prevent the upright moving away from the nailing position. Alternatively some people knock a nail partially into the rail as a backstop, then skew nail the other side, and pull the partial nail out after.
What size timber are you using?
ordinary 4" nails are normally fine in 4x2" sawn.
You can use screws if you prefer - the self drilling ones like turbogold will not usually split wood near an edge. Failing that a framing nailer is another way!

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Structural/Builders+Metalwork/Corner+Brace+50+mm/d210/sd2797/p88945
Seems a bit ott and slow...

Normally you pay no attention to the existing joists (for non load bearing partition wall anyway). They usually just sit on the existing floor and may run parallel or across existing joists depending on the direction.
If the room is out of square you will have to decide where best to lose the error.
One trick worth doing is don't completely fix the top and bottom rails to start with - knock a nail through and into the existing joist - but leave half an inch sticking out. That way if you decide once the wall s built its not quite in the position you want, you pull the nail a bit to free the rail, and tap the whole wall where you want it with a sledge hammer. The finally fix when you are happy.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:48:59 +0100, John Rumm

I haven't got the knack yet but perhaps it is just a case of practice making perfect?
Even when using 4x2, isn't the 4" the depth of the wall and you hammer through the 2" thick part. This is where I get into trouble as the nail tends to come out the other side, rather than through the bottom!

The gas powered "laughing" gun mentioned earlier? I read your FAQ page and they sound dangerous and expensive!
Thanks.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 15/07/2010 11:20, Fred wrote:

Yup, certainly...

Yup...
Ah, nailing at the wrong angle it seems. Start the nail about 1.5" up the stud - you can tap it in a little bit with the nail almost horizontal to get the point in. Then bend it upward so that it is pointing down at about 30 degrees from the vertical and drive it home. The last few blows will need to be with the edge of the hammer to drive the head home, don't worry about denting the stud a bit!
When you think about it, you want the nails to stop the stud pushing into or pulling out of the wall - there is going to be little force attempting to push the ends of the studs to the left or right. So a nail through the bottom (or top) corner of the stud will do that effectively even if it does not look like its going through much "meat" of the stud.
If you find that you have moved the stud away from its intended position a little, don't bother trying to tap it back in place - just drive another skew nail in on the other side of it - that will normally undo the problem!

Either the pasload gas nailer[1], or a pneumatic framing nailer. Used for this application they are not particularly dangerous[2] - you are nailing into appropriate wood of sufficient size. (fixing thin sheeting to existing stud work is more dangerous, since you can miss a stud and end up firing a nail through the sheet).
Re expense, the gas nailers cost a bit more to run since you need bespoke nails and a gas cartridge. The pneumatic ones are cheap to run (a box of 3000 collated 90mm nails will probably be 50 or so. (ebay will probably do you small quantities). However you need a small compressor and airline to feed them.
The main gain of a nailer is speed. You can fix a stud, and its nogging in 30 secs or so (8 nails altogether). If you have someone cutting wood for you, that can stick a whole wall up very quickly.
I usually cheat a bit and cut a template nogging and half stud. Get the first stud fixed plumb with a level. Then drop the template nogging on the base rail, push the base of the next stud up to it and skew nail it to the base. Now hold the nogging up to the top and fix the top of the stud. The template serves two purposes - restraining the movement of the stud away from its intended position, and also setting the gap. Assuming I am working left to right (easier if working right handed), I then use a template half stud set the height of the nogging to skew nail the left end. Finally, stick a couple of nails through the wide face of the rightmost stud into the right end of the nogging. Do this for about 6 studs at a time, and then measure the overall spacing and plumb to check you are not going to drift out on board edges. Adjust a gap mid board if needs be, so that there is always a stud under the middle of each board join.
[1] Their patents have expired so there are other brands making similar devices now.
[2] Use common sense - ear and eye protection, and disconnect the airline when you put it down for a bit - you don't want to be kicking it about in a pile of offcuts!
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 16:36:42 +0100, John Rumm
That's exactly what I am doing wrong. I suppose practice will make perfect.

I had a look at the nailers in the screwfix catalogue and I notice they are angled at about 30 degrees too.

I see the catalogue also sells batteries for them. What is this for: to ignite the gas? Why do you need replacements? Aren't they rechargeable?

As much as I can't resist an excuse to buy a new toy, even the pneumatic ones seemed to be 300. Besides, I haven't got a compressor. What DIY uses do you find for one? I always thought air tools were more for work on cars? It must be quite cumbersome to drag a compressor with you, or do you leave it in the garage and have along airline dropped out of the window?
BTW is that what airline oil is used for? The first time I heard of it, I thought it was something used in 747s!
Thanks.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

We toe nail the bottom of each vertical stud. Use a heavy enough hammer. If it moves sideways you can block it with a piece of 2by4 or your boot! Or you can use screws and there are lots of tricks to holding the studs in place on the mark for the initial nail. One way is to construct the wall in sections flat on the floor driving in 4 inch nails from 'below' the bottom plate and from 'above' the top plate. Then raise the wall, in small enough sections or for say a garden shed etc. you can do it solo. I've never seen anybody use those metal 'storm' brackets here although I s'pose you could. Good luck.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

A manual I saw recently mentiond one drop of oil as lubrication for a 'brad' compressed air driven (flooring) nailer before use. Guess that's what 'air-line oil' is?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.