I have the old domestic AC unit now and apparently it takes 500ml of R-410A (Puron?) that I believe is an HFC and runs at a higher pressure than older systems (but what pressure)?
Mates car AC auto unit uses R-134A so whilst a different gas, would it be compatible? What would stop it being compatible?
Cheers, T i m
Yeah. I did look briefly at the list on Wiki but I'm no chemist so the nuances of each wasn't obvious.
Agreed.
Well, that's the thing. I wasn't sure if there were obviously technical reasons (pressures, chemicals affecting seals etc) over say simple cooling efficiencies.
And that's the thing. It's quite possible that my mates machine could take R-410A and a bottle of that could be much cheaper than buying a new AC unit, assuming we get a reasonable life out of one charge etc.
That may depend on what the fault is, or even if there is a fault at all. eg, I think some of the newer / ozone friendly gasses have smaller molecule sizes and can migrate through the hoses (not suggesting this is one etc).
Cheers, T i m
No I did not even replace the drier just held vacuum for longer (hydrocarbons are more forgiving of moisture)
If there is not provision you can silver solder one in the line
Yes but different testers sometimes (you can put stuff in refrigerant that shows up under ultra violet if there is a leak.
Something called R32 apparently is a replacement
Probably not although as an aside , A mixture of propane and isobutane is a replacement for 134a. the thing is in Australia and probably UK refrigerant gasses are controlled but hydrocarbon gasses in the main are not, one state tries to control them in air cons
The problem is that without a license or trade certificate most refrigerants are unobtainable but hydrocarbons are.
Yes and there is even a soft fairly easily used aluminium solder We have blokes at various markets welding holes in coke cans as a demo.
Ok, thanks.
So, I'm guessing I would do so where it should be obvious it was gassed in the first place (I have the unit now but not had the time to strip it down to check for such things).
OOI, on my mates car a/c machine it has an interface that looks like a slightly bigger 'Euro' airline connector?
Cheers, T i m
Sorry, you have lost me there mate. Are you saying *I* can (probably?) buy 'hydrocarbon' gasses that will probably work in my a/c unit as a refrigerant (easier than the refrigerant that was originally in there)?
Is this a matter of 're-gas it with something that works, rather than the idea that could work better but would be more complicated (officially especially) to do?
I'm a complete a/c novice trying to get the bigger picture here. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
Ok ...
So are these 'CFC's' in the main?
Ok.
If I understand it correctly, the early gasses screw the ozone layer and whilst the later ones don't so much (?), they can be worse for global warming in general (and because some have smaller molecules, can permeate hoses and so leak easier)? ;-(
Cheers, T i m
Sounds like 'Lumiweld', something I bought at a show years ago and have used to good effect. ;-)
It's still out there it seems. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
If the UK is anything like here refrigeration is a closed family and anyone outside can not buy most refrigerants but anyone can buy hydrocarbons so if you want to DIY you are limited
Yes as non trade people are prohibited from using other than hydrocarbons
Given my mate is in the garage trade I'm not sure yet if he might be able to access some gases under that role alone (him being 'Trade' rather than 'public', even though not in the aircon trade as such).
Ok (thanks) I'll have to look into what 'hydrocarbons' might replace what was in there originally and how I would get them into it.).
Maybe if it is already deplete of gas and I can fit a 'standard' port to it (if there is such a thing), a real a/c pro might then be willing to check it out for me?
At ~800 quid new I'd like to think it wasn't considered disposable? ;-(
Cheers, T i m
In article , T i m writes
A real pro will fit a port for you if necessary and gas it with the correct refrigerant - mine did. As it happened it was the same refrig as used in some car air-con.
There are a host of split system videos to be found on you tube. Many of th e current precharged compressor units have schrader valve connection points built into the isolation valves. A hvac gauge manifold kit can be used to check pressures. Closing off the isolation valves will permit pressure test ing of the evaporator unit. Normally dry nitrogen is used to purge and test at first intallation. Once proved to be sound the pipework and evaporator unit are evacuated with a high vacuum pump.
There's a basic outline of the installation of a Merikan split system here
Can you remember how much that cost OOI?
Do you know if that was what was in there in the beginning or just that's what he used?
If it was as easy as that, I wonder why the guy they paid to come round and do just that, didn't? (I did ask mate if he could remember
*why* hit wasn't repaired and I think he just said that the guy said 'it wasn't repairable ... eg it was a disposable unit?).Cheers, T i m
This isn't a split system as such, it's an all-in-one with an in and out port on the back (effectively accessing what would be the external unit).
I've seen such on my mates car A/C service machine.
Ok.
This is where I think the problems will start as I believe this unit is more like domestic fridges and freezers where they are charged and then the charging pipe folded back and crimped off.
Understood (I believe mates car system does that also).
Cheers.
Quite, something I may not find out till I get it tested.
Assuming it hasn't already all gone?
Car mate has one for car use and if it can also sniff the gas in my domestic unit (assuming there is any left) then that could be handy?
Ok.
I already have a std split unit in one of the bedrooms but this was fir use where an outside unit wasn't possible. I can buy a new one for £800 and I still might, if I can't get this one running.
Interesting to know, thanks.
I'm sure mates system has the last two. ;-)
I also know the unit should take 500ml of R410A but not at what pressure?
Thanks for the feedback.
Cheers, T i m
First the leak has to be found and fixed.
If there is no valve to regas it, a line tap valve can be fitted to do the job. It really needs a manifold and pressure guages to take the guesswork o ut of it.
Agreed (ideally), however, it doesn't seem 'unknown for people to have their cars re gassed at the beginning of every summer in the knowledge that it will need to be done the same time next year?.
I think my mate said this unit was ~5 years old and *if* it's lost it's refrigerant over that entire period, could that be considered 'normal' / 'typical'?
That said, I have a split system that must be 10+ years old now and it seems to be going ok ? Could it have an older gas in it that whilst worse for the ozone layer might not leak out as easily (migration though the rubber hoses etc)?
OK, I'll check that out.
Of course (and they are less than I imagined).
Then it would be getting some gas and it looks like R410A is about £100 / kg. (I need 500g, assuming it's completely empty).
I'm assuming that my mates 'car' system would be able to do the vac test and would remove any remaining gas and the oil and store them in a recovery tank / container?
Because of the investment in kit and the chances of more restrictions on playing with this stuff in the future, I think I'm going to ask about and see if anyone knows a local aircon guy who would do this with me as a project rather than a job (covering their costs plus a drink etc).
eg, Not having to pay 160 quid to have a bloke turn up, take the cover off it and say it can't be repaired. ;-(
'Busmans holiday' I know but I have spent all my life helping others (for nothing), it would be nice to get a little back now and again ...
Cheers, T i m
Small AC pumps are "hermetic" everything is sealed up. AC on cars has a shaft which has a seal which is where the gas leaks out so it has to be topped up regularly.
It's possible to get rid of the air in the system by "flushing" with refrig erant gas so no vacuum has to be pulled.
Some AC engineers have a homemade vacuum pump using and old compressor.
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