There’s a building near me awaiting demolition that has a Mitsubishi “Mr Slim” heat pump with “R410A Power inverter” printed on it.
I rather suspect it’ll go for scrap so I’m wondering about the viability of getting permission to remove/buy it, getting it degassed and reinstalling it in my house.
Way more trouble than it’s worth? What would de-gassing and re-gassing cost?
Tim
Can you identify how old it is? If it's old it may be comparatively clapped out.
What do you plan to do with it? Would you get the room units as well, or just the outdoor box? Can you make use of the room units (eg ceiling cassettes are no good without a suspended ceiling or cutting a 600x600mm hole)?
The outdoor unit is one thing, but you also need some emitters inside and some controls to turn on the outdoor unit, plus pipework (both insulated fridge and condensate drains).
Not sure, but upwards of a few hundred probably. Depends on what pipework etc you're asking them to install. They can also be heavy, so likely need two people to move.
You'll need wiring indoor and out, an isolator and possibly a new CU way depending on the current demand.
Theo
That did cross my mind.
Well I would hope to get the room units too.
Well I haven’t seen inside yet. I might be able to find someone who worked there though.
I think I need to find a bit more about the unit first. Couldn’t find an image match on Google which suggests it might be quite an old model.
Tim
There was a press release that suggested the "Mr Slim" range swapped from R410 to R32 in 2017, so it presumably it's over 5 years old.
Yep. Just found that myself. I wonder if that might be an issue for recharging? Don’t really know anything about refrigerants.
Tim
I don't know much either, but I think R410A is not uncommon, particularly in older systems. I wouldn't have thought it would be a big difficulty for someone who does aircon stuff - must be a lot of commercial chillers out there. From which I read it runs at a higher pressure than other gases, possibly meaning the pipework needs more pressure tightness - possibly the installer needs different kit for that.
There's talk of a phasedown of R410A due to its high GWP (2088), but I don't think that's a problem since yours isn't a 'new product'.
Theo
Have a look on ebay for a match, often there's a photo that shows the data panel which has a date on it. eg this one is 2011:
Often the case design changes slightly between models, which may be enough to pin it down. Take some photos and compare.
Theo
Back in the 80s, we had a clean room at where I worked. They wanted to relocate it to another premises in another part of the country. They looked into taking the old active units, which seemed to me to be both an air cleaner and air conditioner/ioniser and filters, but it was actually cheaper, in the end to build it from scratch in the new location. Brian
R410A uses POE oils. Butane (R6110A) is compatible with POE. Can you get a cheap vacuum pump and do the work yourself? After all this is a DIY group!
DIY F-gas is illegal unless you have an F-gas ticket (for fixed installations, filling is still possible on vehicles). You can't arbitrarily swap refrigerants and expect the system to work, and you'd need an F-gas person to degas the R410A before deinstalling it. (although the builders will presumably need an F-gas person anyway and they might have already done that)
Theo
That is why I suggested R6110A.
I'm going to bite. Can you provide the statute regarding any illegality on existing equipment?
The government websites I have seen merely provide 'guidance' on who can work on what, but then work is often means receiving remuneration.
Can you show R6110A is a dropin replacement for R410A? You can't just swap refrigerants unless they are designed to be compatible.
I haven't read through all the legislation but I haven't seen anything that says DIY is different to paid installation.
Theo
I'm sure Tim+ is of the calibre to do various tests including power consumption and cooling capability at various weights of R6110A. They are similar in terms of temperatures and pressures. Perhaps the main issue is you can't use the contents of a Butane cylinder as this will be n-Butane.
There are issues surrounding flammability, something fluorinated gases aren't, but if you sleeve pipes in such a way leaks are vented outside from the outset of the installation that aspect should be covered. Most leaks are going to be small, and systems integrity will be checked on evacuation.
Thank you. Are you suggesting that that R6110A is a Fluorinated gas? Hence my initial post, "R410A uses POE oils. Butane (R6110A) is compatible with POE. Can you get a cheap vacuum pump and do the work yourself? After all this is a DIY group!"
First of all, are you talking about butane? I can't find any reference to R6110A, eg in this table:
Comparing R410A and butane, we have, according to:
Boiling point at 1atm: R410A=-55degF, R600=31.2, R600A=10.8 Critical point temp: R410A=162degF, R600=306, R600A=275 Critical point pressure: R410A=690psia, R600=551, R600A=529
According to here:
which look pretty different properties to me, but I'm not a fridge engineer.
Butane isn't a fluorinated gas, but you haven't shown that butane will be a drop in repalcement. In any case, the system will need draining of R410A by someone who does have an F-gas ticket (although maybe that has been done).
I suppose there's nothing stopping you if the system has been drained and is scrap anyway, as long as you aren't expecting it to work and don't mind piping highly compressed flammable gas around your house.
Theo
Ye3s, my mistake, I should have referred to R600A. My memory failed me on this instance.
Since pressures are lower it looked a rather safe alternative. At the end of the day you have a compressor and a restriction valve. It might need some experimentation to get the optimum fill.
Literature suggests that R600A is a near drop-in replacement for R134a.
You're assuming it is still filled. In theory, yes, you need an F-Gas pro to empty the current system. If it's empty, you don't.
I already have flammable gas in my house from a pretty much unlimited source. Ironically, the return side for an R600A system is nominally at atmospheric pressure.
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