Re: OT: Speculation as to reason for the Florida high-rise collapse.

Tonight BBC2 9pm, perhaps giving the answer, sink-hole, underground salt migtation or airbourne salt and concrete reinforcement corrossion?

On 27/06/2021 12:28, N_Cook wrote:> I don't know what this geology effect is called, but Miami , Florida > would be one of the first regions of the world I'd expect to show it . > I saw a TV prog a month ago, that explained something that had puzzled > me about sea level rise. I think it was the Solomon Islands, why their > islands are fast bcoming uninhabitable but global SLR is only a few > inches in a century. Firstly there are hundreds of islands, so a > statistical thing and some are lower lying than others. Secondly > migrating salination of the soil rapidly (over a life time of a farmer) > makes farming impossible . Similarly perhaps rusting the rebar of > concrete piling and concrete spalling earlier than designed for, ie > designed for freshwater only. > As average sea level rises, the salty ground water migrates inland > disproportionally faster than the vertical rise would suggest. > Not just farmers crops, any vegetation including trees succome to the > rising saline soil conditions, die , and soil cohesion goes, so the next > normal storm washes away that island. > In Florida there is ground subsidence due to excessive freshwater > abstraction for agriculture etc. So instead of the global sea level rise > of about 4mm/year, locally to Miami it is about 8mm/year due to the > about equal yearly amount of aquifer depletion and subsidence of the > land above it. > Background to the Florida aquifer problem. >

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> Perhaps someone here knows the technical term for this horizontal saline > migration effect.? >
Reply to
N_Cook
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corrigendum

Tonight BBC2 9:30pm

Reply to
N_Cook

Yes lots of holes there, even more that in, now the question should be how many Albert Halls would fit the holes in Florida? Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

I set my Humax to record it but today the recording is zero minutes with the message "cannot track program" or something.

BBC1 and 2 were making last minute changes because of the tennis and Freeview (on ny Humax) showed the original listings.

Reply to
Andrew

Currently shown on the BBC web site as at 9:00pm Tuesday 5th.

Reply to
Colin Bignell

I recorded an hour of people hitting a small ball around. In the meantime, looks like salty air and rain rebar corrossion assisted by palm tree roots and multiple design/building skimps/errors

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rather than my speculation covered here
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Reply to
N_Cook

For my other speculation, earthquake-like liquifaction, from the recently preceeding vibro-piling on a neighbouring site, looks like no one knowledgable has fully researched that potential cause

Reply to
N_Cook

Confirmed ( SW17 still on next week though) on BBC2 EPG

Reply to
N_Cook

Wasn't most of Miami built on drained/reclaimed everglade? Perhaps they shouldn't build high rises on former swampy ground where the water from the remaining Evergaldes would like to naturally travel through Miami.

There have been various major problems with draining much of the Florida Everglades which now they are trying to reverse.

Reply to
alan_m

Didn't even the bible have some advice about not building your house on sand. I keep seeing references to excessive sea level rise in Florida, "king tides" inundating the drains system and all that, but its the land sinking. I don't think its to do with post-glacial isostatic rebound, like the south Hampshire area is sinking to balance the rise of north Scotland in the UK situation, after the last ice age

Reply to
N_Cook

Possibly building on sand is not advisable in an earthquake area nor in a area subjected to flooding, irrespective of a concrete slab being used. In the case of Miami a high tide can cause flooding, especially in the hurricane season.

A concrete raft beneath a building may stop some cracking but doesn't necessarily stop it tilting. Around my way, and in certain areas, there are potential problems with seasonal ground (clay) heave.

Reply to
alan_m

If Perth is build on sand during an earthquake the vibration can cause liquefaction.

Reply to
alan_m

Sharp sand is exactly where high levels of liquefaction can occur.

Reply to
alan_m

Isn't Perth's potential problem a Tsunami? The sand could then be saturated for the aftershocks.

Reply to
alan_m

I'd liked to have seen whether all that water in the garage area was fresh water from burst pipe/s or saltwater. Even if saltwater and hydraulic pressure buildup around the garage area , no mention of wall failure leading to the pool-deck/garage-roof collapsing from that initiation. The woman did her impromptu photo-survey of the stalgmites etc of the garage roof should have become a structural surveyor

Reply to
N_Cook

No mention of any surveys of the sister building build by the same company and probably to the same standards!

The whole program was full of padding about unrelated building failures.

Reply to
alan_m

There was the Italian Motorway bridge that collpsed a recently due to corrosion of steel cables holding up the decking. The "bong" "bong" sound heard by a resident could have been individual rebar rods breaking.

Reply to
charles

And nothing from any evidence presented to that record breaking billion dollar reparation court case. Presumably sub-judice for appeals, but vibro-piling on that adjascent site was supposed to be part of that court process. What were the loud booms heard in the lead-up, no pre or post-stress tendons in the construction presumably, despite the irrelevant? "Carlton Lab" suspension bridge tendon-cluster aside. Plenty of bent rebar in the imagery but any snalled ones in evidence?

The title of the program was why buildings (plural) fail

Reply to
N_Cook

= snapped

Reply to
N_Cook

There are microphones (in effect) coupled to the bundles of tendons on the likes of Humber and Seven bridges, "hearing" pings every now and then, I don't know what the factor of safety is, in (originally) oversupplied tendons . One of my jobs used to be destructive testing of the likes of rebar and stainless steel rigging screws up to 1.5 inches in diameter on a 500 ton hydraulic dynamometer test kit, impressive bangs at failures. Post and pre-stress tendon testing failures not so impressive audibly as only 6mm diameter or so

Reply to
N_Cook

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