RCDs in series

Matt, what colour did they give you?

Reply to
Doctor Drivel
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On 28 Aug 2007 10:40:20 GMT someone who may be Huge wrote this:-

Been used for many decades. Obviously not pure aluminium:-)

Restrictions on the use of aluminium conductors inside houses are entirely sensible, the small conductor sizes make failure more likely.

Reply to
David Hansen

On 28 Aug 2007 09:56:57 GMT someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote this:-

As much as that. Someone must have been feeling generous.

Reply to
David Hansen

A true classic, I must say.....

Reply to
Andy Hall

I have two 110v systems in the workshop.

One is used to run various chargers etc. at a charging station in one corner and uses an autotransformer. I bought the best power strip that I could find for that one using the convnetional U.S. sockets

The other uses a site transformer and feeds a 110v wiring system installed throught the 3-compartment trunking. I have the yellow IEC outlets for that, and the power to it is controlled by a contactor. These are not very efficient transformers so I want to turn it off.

Reply to
Andy Hall

They're all white ones but at least I don't pay.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Matt, I am a classical person. I have class.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Do they force them down your throat?

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

The rather low maximum current rating (13 amperes) coupled with the use of flat, rather than round pins is alleged to be a design flaw by some as being inadequate for heavy duty applications such as three kilowatt electric heaters or large tumble driers especially on 230 or even 220 volt systems (220 V is the pre-harmonisation standard in both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland). Those who attempt to use 13 A plugs (particularly poor quality ones) with such appliances often find after a while that either the pins or the fuse overheat to the extent that the plastic around the pins becomes discoloured. At 220 volts, a 13.64 amp current will be drawn to supply an appliance with three kilowatts of power.

While 13 A (@ 220-240 V) is indeed inferior than the 15/16 A available on some systems it still has more capacity than the 10 Amp plugs used in some countries or the American NEMA 15 A (but 100-120 volt) system which only provides for appliances up to 1800 watts (at 120 V)

BS 1363 plugs are also considered bulky and most people find them very fiddly to wire (particularly when an appliance has thick conductors) because of the internal dimensions and layout (although this varies somewhat with the design of individual plugs). However since the late 1980s all domestic electrical goods sold in the UK are sold with plugs pre-fitted, under Government regulations. If the length of all conductors from the outer sleeving is made the same, then the first conductor to pull out of a plug (should the cord grip fail) is the Earth, leaving the equipment in a likely functioning but dangerous state. Sometimes plugs carry advice on the lengths to which the individual wires should be cut, to prevent this risk.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Yes I know. Do you see yourself in the genre of Mozart, or are you more like Brahms?

Reply to
Andy Hall

No it's completely voluntary. They are only small ones though, and come in foil wrappers with the day of the week. Quite good really, because it saves having to set the calendar on the Vacheron Constantin

Reply to
Andy Hall

You are obviously Brahms & List.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Good. They have made progress with you.

Do they have Teletubbies on them too?

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

I wish

Reply to
Andy Hall

I thought this was a somewhat more mature use of English than dear old dribble can manage, it appears the child has discovered Wikipedia.

What a pity he missed the header for this particular section and most of his quotation of

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which states "The factual accuracy of this section is disputed."

For some reason he also forgot (from the undisputed part) "Putting the fuse in the plug also allows a range of ratings to be fitted providing superior protection for smaller flexes."

"This plug is often described as the safest in the world"

Reply to
Peter Parry

My English is much superior.,,and this counters you wonderness of the plug.

It maybe.

It does, but the range can be over what is safe for the flex - very easily done and 50% of the time the wrong fuse is in the plug

Which doesn't say much for the others. The best of a bad bunch.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Better able to place sockets where required and in the quantity required. Nothing to do with price.

No, it means it is less likely to pose a shock or fire risk in the presence of the most common faults.

Only at you. Less fire risk, since there is lower current passed through high resistance connections, and the BS1363 accessories are certified by stringent standard to carry full design load. Unlike many shuko style accessories for example.

Lower labour costs certainly. It also encourages creation of more useful circuit layouts since they are less difficult to wire.

And lower environmental impact.

Average kitchen: Washing Machine, Dish Washer, Toaster, Kettle, Microwave etc. That alone could be pushing 11kW. Now what was the nonsense you spouted again?

Overcurrent protection for each and every appliance selected at a level appropriate for the appliance and not the circuit that feeds it. One ogf the great benefits of fused plugs.

Fault protection can be provided independently of appliance protection (and with discrimination), and can be designed so as to be appropriate for the circuit.

If your appliance develops a fault and draws excessive current, it will blow its plug fuse. Hence perfect discrimination. With a 16A radial and no plug fuse you are relying on the circuit protection to operate; even on a 500W appliance.

Cheaper and better in almost every respect. Good, you are learning.

So you don't know. Thought so.

I don't believe you think that for a moment. You are just trying to argue for the sake of it.

Reply to
John Rumm

And you are advocating placing it on a circuit with only 16A protection?

Only a fool uses the wrong fuse, for the rest of use there are 3A or even 1A fuses.

Why don't you give it a try and report back.

Of course. What is your point?

Reply to
John Rumm

Odd, you said that was high current a few posts back.

2.8kW is about the most you will be able to draw on 220V supply.

At 220V the appliance will not draw 3kW (assuming it is a non reactive load). The design headroom in our plugs is such that they will supply

15A or more without damage.

The time when you are most likely to get localised heating on a plug is when either the connections inside it have not been made well enough, or more typically the socket or plug pins are tarnished or dirty. This can effect any plug and socket system , although the larger contact surface or our plugs does help mitigate this.

Many 16A radial circuit systems use plugs rated at only 10A. Hence maximum power in many cases is only 2.2kW

The American system provided 110-0-110 into the house. So you can string heavy fixed appliances across "hot and cold" rather than one side and neutral.

One of the enhancements to the system was the compulsory fitting of plugs by the manufacturers. Making this a moot point for most users.

Shuko plugs are no easier to wire, and things like IEC plugs are very much harder.

If they were the same then they would all pull out together. However the requirement is that the earth wire has more slack that the phase and neutral conductors to eliminate this possibility.

Yes grandma.

Reply to
John Rumm

Nonsense.

On a radial, Washing Machine & Dish Washer will have their own MCB at the CU - safer.

if the fuse is the correct rating, which few are.

On radials many appliances have their own fuses, not relying on home owners to select the correct rating.

It seems the UK is in step and all the rest are out of step. The Germans and Dutch laugh at us. Look at Continental CUs. Professional setup and on the whole quality products. Look at the cheapo crap in Screwfix

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

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