and that is frequently the entire purpose of political correctness... shut down a conversation before it can even start - much simpler than having to actually justify a position, or accept that there might be another valid point of view.
Yup, bollocks to political correctness I say ;-)
Quite.
And to safe spaces, no-platforming, antifa, and indeed to anywhere where any flavour of Thought Police attempt to impose their will on the rest of us.
I agree with all you say John. My objection was to Brian's casual assertion that grammar doesn't really matter any more, and the concomitant attitude that "neither does spelling" (assisted enormously by predictive typing on devices).
It does matter, even though we see _proportionately_ less of it.
I was _not_ saying that people shouldn't be allowed to communicate if they can't spell. (But I admit that my bridling response looks priggish.)
And finally:
I was trying to be simplistic for the sake of the argument. There is fluid (as in liquids) and there is fluid (as in geology). Grammar (as opposed to language) is more at the geological end.
J.
The context of this, is I think simple.
Conservatism, Nowadays called 'hard right' - is about not second guessing stuff, but sticking to what has worked to date, no matter how apparently illogical or unfair it is.
So 'traditional family values' and 'knowing right from wrong' express a set of values that have worked., Also things like honour, bravery, loyalty, truthfulness, not complaining, rewarding success and punishing failure, in whatever way that is to be understood etc. etc.
Progressive Marxism on the other had sees all this body of 'stuff that works' as standing in the way of transforming society to one powered by unicorn farts and pixie dust. Where everyone is equal, and all conflict has therefore ceased. So the idea is to DESIGN how society OUGHT to be, and brainwash people into accepting it.
This of course raises the fundamental question of how people know how society OUGHT to be before trying it out.
And of course who can be trusted to be put in charge of the process without the brainwashing and social change becoming just a way to allow a different elite to get their noses in the trough.
The irony of socialism is that in an attempt to create an equal society, large measures of draconian authoritarianism and inequality are necessary, otherwise people will not accept it.
Anmd it is absolutely ideal for cynical people to subvert into just another way to return to a feudal society, with them as the barons...
It is of course if anyone stopped for a moment to consider it, a totally flawed philosophy.
No one ever does though.
Only political correctness?
How about legal and medical jargon? Plants having different common and correct names? Pretty well any technical term?
Human nature to talk in a code only the 'tribe' understands.
How true. There are those that understand "buses" and those who don't.
Quite. However, what is rather sad is that there are those who have not, for whatever reason, acquired the skills to communicate their thoughts with any level of subtlety.
They may well have outstanding ideas or concepts, but do not have the ability to share them in a way that others can understand and appreciate.
I agree that it is pointless to have a "quality threshold" that must be exceeded in order to be allowed to take part in discussions. Nevertheless, in order for such interchange to have meaning, then both parties need to have a shared common ground to be able to understand what is being said.
Chris
Willing to bet I use them rather more frequently than you.
But then you're very good at commenting on things you know nothing about.
I have no doubt you do, but that does not mean you have the right to stop your car in a bus stop.
True. I know nothing about stopping in bus stops when driving. However, I believe that those idiotic enough to do so incur a penalty. Is this true?
So you didn't mean understand buses, then? But understand bus stops? This from one whose full life seems to be about picking up the merest detail.
You think you'd get a penalty each and every time you stopped at a bus stop?
But glad to know you thing it good that councils set out to gain income from this, rather than just enforcing the law.
see below.
If I were driving a bus, no.
As long as they get *your* money and not mine. But I'm not idiotic enough to stop my car in a bus stop which clearly has a sign: "No stopping except buses"
>
Hope you didn't stop to read that message. They are not situated to be read when approaching a bus stop.
But then you are very obviously in favour of that sort of thing.
If you haven't seen those sort of signs around London, perhaps your eyesight is not good enough to be driving. Your stupidity level should already have precluded you from that.
Yup, I agree it matters, and like it or not, one's inability to to use correctly will create a negative impression in some readers and in some circumstances.
(fortunately for me these days, my poor speeling (dyslexia) can be mostly hidden behind a veneer of technology)
Fair enough... it did real a little as "a right that shall be reserved for the ordained"!
I would suggest there are layers here... yes the fundamental rules of the English language - especially as written don't change that rapidly - although the change is certainly faster than geological IMHO.
However grammar and word use as spoken or written causally is very fluid (probably approaching gas rather than liquid even!) You only need look at the list of new terms to make it to the OED each year, and the creeping influences of other English speaking cultures on ours (particularly the US)
Yes; it's all bollocks and should be resisted.
That may well be a cynical interpretation of it. Some might call it being polite to others you don't know.
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes
There are three strands to the justice system. Punishment, deterrence (of others) rehabilitation. You have been punished, Publicity of your punishment may deter others, Not so sure you have been rehabilitated. Your fine helps pay for the system.
Agreed. But -- heehee, I had to smile just now. Not exactly PC, but definitely the twin brother/sister/sibling of it: business euphemisms.
Someone just popped up with "Issue with petrol mower". Not "problem": "Issue". You can't use "problem" because that's a negative word: you need t ouse "issue", which is more neutral, and implies that we can talk about it calmly etcetcetcetc yawwwwwnnnnn
I laughed out loud when I saw the Tories' slogan at their conference this year: "Opportunity" Now as any fule kno, who has ever had to sit through a training session bought in by their caring and enlightened management, there is no such thing as "Problems": they are all "Opportunities". (Meanwhile the rest of us get on with the work.)
J.
The thing is we have a perfect example to an over reaction to PC in Trump.
Perhaps some think that a good thing. I'm happy to be one who doesn't.
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