OT: from teh Spectator today

Charles Day writes in the Spectator today:

In the run-up to the referendum, a common argument against Brexit went like this:

?We should not leave the EU, because if we try, the EU will be capricious and irrational, it will not prioritise the welfare of its people, it will instead punish us, we must be afraid of that wrath, forget any merit, we must be prudent?.

A similar argument is often discussed at length by Sir Ivan Rogers, and repeatedly published in The Spectator. It is both right and wrong. The people who believe it are not ?Remoaners?, as some might claim: they are patriots. But I disagree. And for me, this argument is why I voted to leave.

I am an autonomous and free human being. I am also a citizen of a society. I surrender my freedoms in order to make that society function. This is a trade-off I make every day. The EU superimposed itself on that trade. It took from me the powers I had loaned to someone else. It did so ?for my own good? in 1992. But it has used those powers poorly.

I like Americans. I share values with their multi-ethnic free society. I would like Britain to have a formal free trade agreement with the United States. I know that the special relationship might not mean a good deal, but I?m pretty sure the UK could reach a fair negotiated settlement with these decent human beings. But Britain wasn?t allowed to; the EU told us it would do that for us. But it didn?t. The EU messed up.

Yet I doubt now whether anyone ? let alone the 33 per cent of unemployed young people in Italy ? would number this incident among the EU?s top ten blunders.

But we should. Because the EU that messed up the America deal ? and that hasn?t ratified the Canada trade deal ? is going to mess up ours too. Any lawyer can tell you this now, because Article 50 says this:

?2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State?.

The key words here are ?the Union shall?. Not the UK ?shall?. Not the Brexiteers ?shall?. The EU ?shall?.

The legal duty has always been on the EU to conclude a Withdrawal Agreement with us. There?s no legal duty on the UK. Let me be very clear: there is a binding legal obligation upon the EU to provide us with what the media call ?a deal?. Not only shall they negotiate, but they shall ?conclude? one.

But they haven?t even tried: the proposed WA is so bad that even Parliament rejected it three times. The ?union? seems now to instead to be hell bent on grandiose opposition to our new Prime Minister. But their legal duty is clear and they?ve breached it.

Yet we will be told the failure of the ?union? to fulfil its legal duty is somehow our fault. They don?t care. Law seems very flexible idea inside this ?union?. The UK can?t sue them in the European Court of Justice for compensation for failure to meet their legal duty, as in any free society ? not without howls of laughter. How could we trust them to honour a mere good faith clause, when they ignore higher binding obligations?

Sir Ivan Rogers knows, as I know, that leaving the EU is very hard ? that doesn?t make it wrong.

Reply to
Tim Streater
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Bravo!

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Well the Spectator would say that, wouldn't they. I think many people in the USA today might question the wonders of their multi-ethnic free society. Particularly with their current president.

Of course we are going to hear much more of this over the next few weeks. It's all *their* fault. Dominic Cummings will take Alistair Campbell's style of spin to a whole new level.

And this is what Ivan Rogers was saying a couple of months ago. OK, quoted in the Guardian, but a pretty unequivocal view from someone who ought to know what he is talking about:

"UK led towards no-deal Brexit by untruthful elite", says ex-EU envoy

Ivan Rogers offers withering assessment of Tory candidates vying to be prime minister

Reply to
newshound

UK led into EU by untruthful elite.

Yer pays yer money...

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Not a problem, you like most Brits don't understand the concept of a free market.

Have fun with the US :-)

One has a sneaking suspicion that Ireland will make far more gains than Britain after Brexit, despite not being Trumps poodle.

There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot.

~Steven Wright

Reply to
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq

Do learn to snip, there's a dear.

And yes, it's the EU's own fault. As it says in their own Treaty, Article 50. Which I notice you and Tarquin conveniently ignore.

Reply to
Tim Streater

100 right, well said that man!
Reply to
Harry Bloomfield, Esq.

Well that is what you think, and that is fine, and while I agree in part, I think that if you look at the history of wars in the Eu, there has not been any between member states for a very long time because the ideal has been that we are all in it together, Now whether this be propaganda or badly handled or due to corruption I do not know, but all administrative systems have corruption, its what humans do. As for America, the country where you cannot afford to be ill? Yeah great the place where it seems at the moment if you are poor and Hispanic or black you do not exist at all. Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

There has been no recent WW in Europe because of Nuclear Weapons and NATO. Nothing to do with the EUSSR.

Reply to
harry

You know that for a fact do you?

It *may* be true but on the other hand having two of the main protagonists in two major previous conflicts in the same organisation might also be seen to reduce the likelihood of another war.

Reply to
Chris Green

The simple fact that countries all trade much more interactively with each other and co-operate on other matters reduces the likelihood, without having to be in a single organisation.

SteveW

Reply to
Steve Walker

I'd have said that the single organisation makes things like Airbus possible. And helps to prevent politicians "playing politics", e.g. Trump and the current potential trade war with China.

Reply to
newshound

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