OT: Flavours, Taste, Texture and Evolutionary Biology

[Cursitor Doom]

Greetings gentlemen,

Naturally whenever a recondite question arises concerning evolutionary biology, we turn to uk.d-i-y for an answer.

I was just musing only the other day about this conundrum as I see it. Humans have a seemingly infinite capacity for discriminating between the most extraordinarily fine differences in the agreeability or (otherwise) of the food we eat. Our ability to critique any dish put before us, regardless of cuisine, is unique to our particular branch of hominids. A veritable fortune awaits the top chefs who can reliably conjure up the finest, most exquisite delicacies for our frenzied and glutinous consumption.

The big question is: given that humans have evolved through all but our most very recent history as only just surviving - mostly on the brink of starvation - on whatever bland and unappealing sustenance we can find in our natural environment that won't kill us, how could our extraordinarily fine ability to discriminate between the most subtle shades of flavour and texture have ever evolved in the first place?

Your thoughts invited.

-CD

[Andy Burns]

glutinous or gluttonous?

[alan_m]

What makes you think that? Just because there are no food reviewers writing crap about food and drink from the rest of the animal world it doesn't mean that the rest of the animal world is not so discerning. Even in a green field some plants will be left untouched by grazing animals.

To stop us eating many poisons or rotten food, albeit some of that must have come from experience and some people dying.

[Ray]

What about us animals and barbarians, you discriminatory obscenity ?

Dunno, cats can be pretty fussy about what they will eat. Tho admittedly they don?t have a lot to say about that.

Not very surprising given that we do spend quite a bit of the time eating. Might as well enjoy what we eat.

That?s very arguable with the more salubrious places to live.

Hardly ever for most of that time.

And some like the chinese came up with some pretty innovative approaches for those times. Eat the neighbour's kids. Bit easier to do than eating your own kids apparently. Just swap them before the meal.

Nothing bland and unappealing about most fruit and game.

Presumably the same way cats did.

Maybe the more discriminating humans who went on to encourage the growth of the food that they preferred to eat were also those who were ore successful at producing tools that made it easier to harvest or catch the food they preferred and that also allowed them to do better at doing well in the weather they were stuck with or were better at finding better places to live and so did better than the more hopeless cousins who got to die like flies in droughts etc.

I gave up on those, they just make my head hurt.

[Brian Gaff (Sofa)]

Because often the items that taste a certain way, may actually make you ill, and so taste can be a good indication that though it tastes similar to something that is good, the ability to tell the difference is important. Brian

[Brian Gaff (Sofa)]

Does my bum look big in this, against the see food diet, or of course one can be the result of the other. Brian

[The Natural Philosopher]

Poisons in small concentrations must be detected.

Fine taste is a survival trait.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Both, really

[Jethro_uk]

Humans are omnivores, whatever the hippy-trippy veganistas try and tell you. That means we are hunters, grazers, and scavengers. (The late Lyall Watson once commented were were *super* omnivores).

That means we have evolved to try and eat anything - which requires a pretty good inbuilt analysis mechanism. We may lack the sensitivity of the canine olfactory system. But we make up for it in spades with an ability to distinguish tastes and smells like very few other species.

The other clue is our dentition - which is a pretty good spread bet on what we can consume to keep the species going.

The magic sauce to all that is cooking. Which arguably shrunk our guts and allowed our brains to grow. You won't get very far before you need to start cooking your food.

[Jethro_uk]

Cats are hunters and will immediately eat what they catch - no need for too much in the way of taste to know a still warm corpse is fresh.

[michael adams]

So how comes all tinned cat food is served cold, and bird and mouse flavour are noticeably absent from the shelves ?

<quote>

Whiskas Adult Single Flavour Pouches Cat Food a.. Chicken in Gravy. b.. Duck in Gravy. c.. Poultry in Gravy. ... d.. Turkey in Gravy. ... e.. Beef in Gravy/Jelly. ... f.. Chicken in Gravy/Jelly. ... g.. Cod in Jelly. ... h.. Duck in Jelly. i...Tuna in Jelly

</quote>

Obviously cats can't actually read the labels but if Tibbles is just satisfied with anything then why the need to produce so many different varieties ? Why not just settle for mouse and bird flavour ?

michael adams

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[harry]

Our sense of taste and smell evolved so we could what food was edible and what was perished/bad/rotten/poison.

[michael adams]

But that would apply to all animals, birds and fish. Those which have survived at least.

The question the OP was asking was why. if indeed it is the case, humans alone have developed such an extraordinarily fine ability to discriminate between the most subtle shades of flavour and texture*

Although in answer to your point not so extraodinary as to be able us to distinguish poisonous mushrooms and toadstools by taste alone. For one.

michael adams

• To me that sound more like PR for an expensive restautant or a food product or outlet. Rather than say McDonalds.

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[Jethro_uk]

The wonders of the free market. After all, you can buy "Himalayan Pink salt" at an eye-watering price that is basically ... salt.

How do you think bottled water companies get away with it ?

[Jethro_uk]

No. It only applies to those that need it. Predators don't as they catch and eat their food fresh - literally heart still beating.

Grazing animals don't really get around enough to be exposed to too much that would hurt them.

*Scavengers* (one of mankinds many masks) do need to be able to discriminate based on smell and taste. Hence we do.

The fact that humans are still here suggest there many be other more subtle factors at play. Humans are also blessed with quite amazing colour vision. And colours play a part in signalling food edibility or otherwise.

[charles]

Fijian water especially

[Ray]

Yes.

Nope, they are notorious for playing with what they have caught and leaving a present of the corpse on the doorstep of their owner too.

But they are notoriously fussy about what they will eat.

[Martin Brown]

It has to appeal to the cat's owner as well as the cat.

Cat's are obligate carnivores so if they do not get meat of some kind they are in trouble. Cats that are allowed to go outside will find some of their own food, but so called house cats can end up deficient if fed a vegetarian diet. You can feed a dog any old rubbish by comparison.

[Martin Brown]

A lot of what you think of as a taste is actually a smell of volatile components in the food you are eating. True tastes on the tongue are sweet, salty, acidic, bitter and umami. Of these bitter is a warning that there are alkaloids in whatever it is you are eating (very bad).

Being able to find and identify sweet ripe fruit has serious advantages and is also one reason why we have tricolour vision.

One of the more unusual tastes is the green perilla leaf (in the mint family) which is used in Japan with sashimi. It has a taste that is almost entirely smell and like nothing else.

The really tricky things are highly toxic fungi like Amanita Phalloides which is deadly poisonous but unfortunately tastes very good.

As an omnivore unless you can recognise food you discover that is still safe to eat then you run the risk of food poisoning.

I reckon it was a brave man that ate the first chilli and durian (to pick two of the more tricky things to eat). Natou fermented soya beans from Japan is another acquired taste - imagine baked beans in Evo-stick sauce smelling like the inside of a dustbin.

Dogs and polar bears have way better sense of smell than we do and probably of taste as well. They just don't write fancy food reviews.

[michael adams]

Well yes. But the cat has to eat it as well. While humans may allow themselves to be persuaded by what they read on the label the same doesn't apply to cats. Basically if it all tasted the same to cats, (apparently to a human all cat food is relatively bland) then there would be no point in producing quite so many varieties as owners would soon settle on the variety that both satisfied the cat (any, preumably) and met their own aspirations; which at a guess would be more inclined to Duck or Tuna in Gravy/Jelly rather than Chicken or Cod in Gravy/Jelly

michael adams

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