Oh dear, the IPCC have got it wrong again.

The article says nothing of the sort.

It says that they haven't managed to collect enough data to be sure, and as per my other post I'm not surprised.

This trend is going to take 20-30 years to establish and until we have waited that long we aren't going to know either way.

Changing your mine on this issue using year on year difference is just silly

tim

Reply to
tim.....
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What if the increased temps cause more snowfall? Where do climate change models take into account changes in weather patterns.

Reply to
dennis

The penalty of writing a post while on the phone. To paraphrase very loosely something ISTR, I can't multi-task like I used to ...

Yes. The ice is a sample of the precipitation that formed it, whereas the bubbles are samples of almost contemporaneous (somewhat younger) atmosphere. These are different things.

Both oxygen ...

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and hydrogen ...

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isotopes are used to estimate temperature.

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of p6 onto 7 (pdf) 1099/1100 (printed)

"As reported in Science: ?The rate of gas diffusion through ice is not more than 1/40 000 to 1/ 70 000 as fast as it is through water (citation to Scholander and others, 1953). Considering this extremely slow rate, the relatively enormous diffusion distances in the glacier, and the large quantity of gases held under pressure in the ice, it would seem possible that gas trapped in the glacier would remain unchanged for millennia."

The above source has this a few paras further along:

"The simplest, most compelling evidence demonstrating that Scholander accurately foresaw the utility of ice as a bottle for old air is provided empirically. For the key atmospheric trace gases, such as CO2, CH4 and N2O, and for tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of years we now have multiple records generated by different labora- tories on different continents using cores from sites with different accumulation rates, temperatures and impurity loadings, often stored, handled and analyzed in different ways, yet yielding the same history within the combined analytical and dating uncertainties (e.g. see Jansen and others 2007, especially figure 6.4; Ahn and Brook, 2008). Furthermore, this record overlaps with the instrumental measurements of the free atmosphere, again with beautiful agreement (Neftel and others, 1985; Pearman and others,

1986). There is no plausible way that this agreement could be produced if there are significant problems with the entrapment, storage, recovery or reading of the atmospheric signal in the ice."

Yes, and methane and other greenhouse gases, atmospheric composition generally, in fact.

Wiki has quite a good summary of the subject.

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Reply to
Java Jive

I suppose that's possible, which is the reason why we have to wait 20 years to find out

Who knows

Modelling this is bound to fail. We just don't have enough data. All we can do is wait

tim

Reply to
tim.....

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